66 Continental Brake System Investigation

[455hota]

Today with a friends help, i got the 66 up nice and high off the ground so I can examine the front and rear brakes and see the overall condition they are in. When i got the car the brake pedal did stop the car, but i only had the speed up to a max of 15 MPH. A few days later the driver rear brake started leaking fluid onto the ground. Need to understand why?

Car up on jack stand following the correct body lift locations (thanks Fraser for that diagram from the earlier service manual!)

The rear drums appear to be original:

I measured the ID of the drums and I am 1/32” too large. The shoes appear to have been replace recently, as well as the brake hardware. And anti seize lubricant is on the key parts. I believe the driver rear wheel cylinder is leaking, and needs either a rebuild or replacement.

Can someone confirm if my drums are too worn? The max. Number in the service manual is 11.090”, and I am 1/32” larger than that number. I know 70% of braking comes from front, so how critical is the rear drum measurement of 1/32” larger inside diameter ?

Also since i have the original style rear drums, is there a supplier who can reline these drums? Anyone have experience getting this done previously?

The front discs are surprisingly original looking, with the correct flex lines, two piece calipers, correct bolts holding the caliper halves together, and correct bolts to the steering knuckle. The pads had a lot of use left in them, and the rotors measure 1.245” thick. I had to search the internet to find that a new caliper thickness spec is 1.250”, so these seem to have a lot of life left. They are the correct two piece rotor design. The calipers have the correct anti rattle clip for the brake pads. The correct splash shields are in place as well. The front brakes do stop the rotors when the pedal is depressed. I need to make sure all 4 pistons are free moving in their bores, but there are no brake fluid leaks. I pulled the calipers off to verify the piston movement, but i think they will go back on for now. I guess i will check the wheel bearings and see how they appear, but they sppne just perfectly with no noise or sloppiness detected. More to come... Steve

Does anyone see anything i have missed from the front disc brake pics? It is very strange to me that the entire front brake assemblies appear to factory correct and un-molested. This is a 57 year car, with 7300 miles showing on the odometer. It is at least 107,300 miles, but normally after one of two brake jobs, they are never this original. At least from my experience. The entire underside of the car is incredibly solid and clean with no signs of rot. Another weird thing for a car delivered new to Chicago and then 57 years later bought is Michigan. Somewhere in its past life this car was either in a dry storage building, of spent a lot of time down south.
Looking forward to hearing your thoughts/comments.

[1Bad55Chevy]

I think we need a full tour of that garage before anyone helps!

Damn that is nice! I work in what use to a 1950s Texaco and it's a real hell hole in August/September!

[Dan Szwarc]

You could to pull the pad retainers off the fronts and inspect the piston boots for tears caused by abrasion to the retainers.

They’re pretty rusty and some hard lines have been replaced over the years, but as long as all pistons are free and moving, then fix the rear brake leak and flush the system to establish your baseline maintenance. Calipers are still available new and refurbed.

As for rear drums, I do not think that new drums are available at all even today. They weren’t in 1998 when I got my 66, but I haven’t checked lately.

If you have plenty of shoe lining, adjust them out to a loose but almost snug fit to the drums and leave it be.

Isolate the leak in the back (probably the wheel cylinders) and repair. Are new wheel cylinders still available?

[Lee]

New drums are available, but personally, I wouldn’t worry about it, unless you plan on some aggresive driving.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/114120113066?c ... 8c5dfa81c4
Pull that cylinder apart, and if it isn’t badly scored, run a brake cylinder hone through it, and reassemble with new rubber pistons. You should be fine. This will be a good time to flush all the brake fluid while you are at it.

[Dan Szwarc]

While Mark II Enterprises should know what it’s doing, 65-69 brake drums wouldn’t have a C1VV part number. They’d be C5VV or something.

I guess as long they work, it’s better than not being available for any price.

[frasern]

Inspect all the brake lines for rust, and the fuel lines while your at it, they run side by side. Take the left fender shield off, and a small clamp/cover at the bottom, it holds dirt and moisture inside.
I think thin drums are more of a heat issue, (opinion) the shoes will not run out of travel, but check the adjusters if you want, they should still have plenty of thread.
Edit, brake drums became 30 thou (I think) larger in '63.

[TonyC]

Are new wheel cylinders still available?

Yes, they are. O'Reilly still has active listings for wheel cylinders. Plus, online options are all over. It may be cheaper and quicker to do an outright replacement, though I would advocate rebuilding the old ones later on if they can be rebuilt.

O'Reilly also has active listings for new drum linings, which I'm afraid 455hota will need as well. When I saw the fluid on the inside of the drum, that told me the leak was in that cylinder. The fluid has very likely contaminated the linings, meaning they will need to be replaced at the same time. Brake linings are useless once brake fluid hits them. O'Reilly will likely have to submit an order for them, but the point is that they can.

One conversion I would advocate, though, would be to the master cylinder and the valves involved in the braking system: Consider doing a two-tub conversion. The M/C of '66 was a one-tub unit, which means that if one brake loses fluid integrity the whole system goes down...and how many would think of stomping the parking brake in an emergency? At least with a two-tub M/C, which became the standard the very next year, you'll have at least two brakes to wrestle you down should a fluid leak spring up, like now. That said, you can wait until the OE M/C packs it up to do that conversion; again, those are also available at O'Reilly, but remember to ask for a 1967 (or '68/9) model. I do not know whether the bulky metering and proportioning valves of '66 will work on a '67 cylinder, but maybe they can if they don't malfunction (if that happens you can't find exact replacements; you need to splice in aftermarket valves, like a combination valve that has all those needed features in one unit).

On another note,

While Mark II Enterprises should know what it’s doing, 65-69 brake drums wouldn’t have a C1VV part number. They’d be C5VV or something.

Indeed, those do not even look like exact replacements for the disc-fitted cars. The drums of '65–9 cars don't have ribbing on the outside. But, on the other hand, if they slide on and cover up the innards with no issues, and they work well, the appearance of them is academic.

---Tony

[Mike]

Like Tony said wheel cylinders are available. I think they were under $10 each when I replaced mine. They were used on millions of Fords and aren't anything special.

I don't see any reason to think the front brakes have never been messed with. They don't take long for any of the parts to look old. Is it normal for the retaining bolts and lines to not match each other? Never worked on those before.

[455hota]

Well i reviewed the calipers on the bench. I blocked the pistons with wood to make sure they would not fly out. One caliper had only one free piston. The other had three free pistons. I used 90 psi air. I know air is different that brake fluid, but even with air the 4 pistons should all move evenly outward. So it is rebuild time.
I was able to coax all 8 pistons out, separated the calipers, and WOW, the brown sludge inside thwm was terrible! I will take pics tomorrow. The pistons cleaned up very nice, no pitting on them. The calipers will be washed in the parts washer, blown out dry, glass beaded carefully, blown out again, then a trip thru the ultrasonic cleaner.
More to come... Steve

[1Bad55Chevy]

Don't stop with the brakes... those ball joints, tie rods, and sway bar links look pretty rough.. I would rebuild the entire front end while it's taken apart.

[Dan Szwarc]

I always wondered why Ford said not to separate the caliper halves. There’s nothing between them.

[Mike]

Don't stop with the brakes... those ball joints, tie rods, and sway bar links look pretty rough.. I would rebuild the entire front end while it's taken apart.

If they're still good and the boots aren't split I'd leave the ball joints and tie rod ends alone. The rubber a lot of them are using now dry out and fall apart pretty quickly. But those link bushings look like they've seen better days.

[frasern]

Personally, I don't replace factory parts with Chinese ones unless needed. Diagnose, before throwing parts at it, the old ones may have more life remaining than a brand new re-pop.

[Nice1]

I just did the rear wheel cylinders on my 66. Got them at AutoZone.

[TonyC]

I'm normally an advocate of waiting until need arises, but in this case I have to make an exception. If the lower ball joints are factory-original, they have to be replaced, ASAP. The OE joints were not exactly made from the most durable materials; in fact they were so bad that many sources noticed their poor quality back then. If they were bad new, they are much worse now.

But for those who don't believe in just-because replacements, how do you know? Simple: If you hear high-pitched squeaking from the front, or if you feel the front of the car sway left-to-right rather rapidly at any speed, you need lower ball joints, and fast. I don't think I have to elaborate on the consequences of disregarding those warning signs.

Lower ball joints are one of those things the aftermarket actually improved on. Get a pair. Center links are also upgraded in the aftermarket. Get one. The soft (rubber-impregnated) spacers used on the steering boxes caused all the ills these cars suffered in their steering systems, a design flaw in the systems. The hard spacer designs by John Brewer and Jack Rosen cure that ill by engineering out that flaw; so when you replace everything, expensive as it will be, you will never have to worry about them again except for greasing intervals.

---Tony