1966 Lincoln Continental Timing Chain Replacement

[frasern]

Here is something I remembered, but it took a while to find it. Rope seals used a pin in the bearing cap, to keep them from turning, this pin could distort a neoprene seal if left in place. If you still have the small, sharp pin in the seal groove, it could be what caused the leak.

This picture is of a small block, but I remembered the pin being in my Buick nailhead when I rebuilt it, 40 years ago.

[TonyC]

Hmm...

On the other hand, the instructions today for neoprene seals say nothing about removing the nail. You'd think they would, as they do stress the way the round pieces have to be installed. Plus, I can remember having done it that way years ago without using the nail, and oil still hemorrhaged from there.

---Tony

[Emas9420]

I actually had neoprene seals when i took it out the first time i did it. so that pin was actually not there at all. could it be leaking oil from there - could i just put some RTV on that hole?

[Emas9420]

Can't i use the same hoses to just reconnect the lines after i cut them?

You can, but having done that in the past myself I advise against cutting anything. You can replace the rubber hosing at the radiator, but I do not advise using it to splice cuts in the steel piping. Splicing with rubber hoses down there, even the proper hydraulic type, will cause leaks down there. In fact, I would advise against cutting them if they can be disconnected from the transmission without wringing the piping (soak the fasteners with PB Blaster beforehand, to unseize them and prevent damage to the pipes). Then free the lines from the retaining clip near the left-front end of the engine. That should be enough to get the lines out of your way to do the reseal job; you shouldn't have to remove the lines from their rubber couplers at the radiator (but if you do, at least label them so you can reinstall them correctly).

As for the PCV valve, this is how it's set up...or, to be precise, how it's supposed to be set up. There is a steel pipe that runs along the right-hand valve cover, originally mounted in place at two of the intake manifold bolts on that side. That pipe has a short rubber hose at its front that connects it to the carburetor spacer. At the back of the pipe, the valve is screwed into place; one end has a fitting which accepts another rubber hose, which then routes to a plate at the back of the valley pan (under that plate is the PCV filter, which is basically a steel-wool donut). The valve and filter were designed to be cleaned out and reused at the established service intervals. If you do not see the pipe on your engine, somebody removed and tossed it because they didn't know WTH they were dealing with. That isn't a good thing, as this was designed to recycle blow-by gases in the engine. Its absence can cause a bit of roughness, along with an unpleasant smell in the cab when those gases get caught by the HVAC. It was the first pollution-control system cars were fitted with.

I'll tell you one more detail which should be irrelevant for your year, unless that same somebody made changes to your engine with later-'67 components. During the '67 run, the design was changed, with a valley pan that discarded the filter and cover, replacing it with a hole and grommet, in which a new, smaller valve (similar to valves of later cars) was seated; that valve was designed to be discarded and replaced after certain intervals. It was connected to the carburetor spacer solely via a rubber hose, no steel pipe in that redesign.

Plus, Chevy's input is correct: Those symptoms, if you have them, command a rebuild (as the spare 462s Lincoln had were all used up, replacement is less practical, though still possible). I know from hard experience.

---Tony

Yes, I do see the line with the valve now.. so you guys suggest replacing that? I took out the breather out from the oil filler tube and had no blow back at all... not even a little bit, so thats good.

[frasern]

Well, if you don't have the pin, then don't worry about it, I'm just throwing it out there. If there is no blow by at the oil filler, the pcv is working, even a great engine will have some blow by. But take the hose off the carb base, and see if it is drawing, you can tell by the rpm.
Overfilling the oil could also cause the rear seal to leak.

[TonyC]

If you have the screw-in type of PCV valve, which you should, you do not need to replace it unless it's very old. But, if you can feel it working per Fraser's input above, then you don't need to replace it; just cleaning it out with brake-clean spray or carburetor solvent will suffice. However, should you have to replace it, NAPA has an active listing for that valve.

---Tony

[Emas9420]

Thanks. I'm going to focus for now on the seal.. but yeah as i said, no blow by from the oil filler so should mean its working.
Also, I'm taking you guy's advice on NOT doing anything to the transmission lines.. I'll quickly check out if i can remove them but i highly doubt i can without lowering the tranny so I'll only give it one attempt... I do see im leaking transmission fluid so its a good time to check if the lines are leaking or something else.
I'm hoping to get this fixed soon.. can't wait to not stain my driveway anymore.

[TonyC]

That's a good sign, no smoking from spots that shouldn't be smoking. That means you can delay a rebuild for a while (maybe, just a suggestion, shop for new parts while you can, gradually, not all at once, that way it's gentler on the bank account and easier to overcome potential headaches once a rebuild does become necessary).

Good luck; keep us informed!

---Tony

[Dan Szwarc]

Just FYI, everyone.

Here is as “perfect” timing chain gear removed from a low mileage 462 Lincoln.

[TonyC]

Yes, with cracks highlighted. This is proof for what Ron Baker had said so many years ago: Nylon breaks up with age, not use. Use will accelerate the disintegration, obviously; but it is not the cause. It's most fortuitous that new timing components made entirely of iron are readily available now.

But we must keep one thing in mind: This was one of several engineering changes done across the industry, which Lincoln spearheaded. It was adopted because the nylon ring gear helped make the engine quieter, and back then nobody knew yet about the limited life spans of the synthetic materials. The Lincoln MEL engines are the first, but not the only, engines to use nylon gears.

---Tony

[LithiumCobalt]

It also took Ford quite some time to realize these were garbage. As Tony mentioned, is started with the MELs and they used them at least up to the late 80’s. My ‘87 Town Car had one before I changed it. By 88-89, they finally used up the stock.

[frasern]

My 62 Buick had a nylon lined gear in about that condition, looked fine from afar, but riddled with cracks. Even period repair books recommended changing it at 60,000 miles if removed, 100,000 maximum. And that did not account for age.
I had one jump in northern Ontario, 1200 miles from home in 1980, quite the ordeal. But that's not a Lincoln story so I'll stop now.

[Lee]

It also took Ford quite some time to realize these were garbage. As Tony mentioned, is started with the MELs and they used them at least up to the late 80’s. My ‘87 Town Car had one before I changed it. By 88-89, they finally used up the stock.

They probably knew early on, but it would last long enough to get through the warranty period, and it was probably a cash cow for the dealers shortly after that.

Not really that much different than the myriad of manufacturers who make 60,000 mile timing belts.

[TonyC]

Maybe, but I still maintain unlikely. Considering when these synthetics were invented, then considering the time they were entered into the general industry (invented in the '30s for military use, not introduced to the commercial world until the '50s), there simply was not enough time for them to learn the trade-offs of synthetics. Maybe the military was starting to learn, but you know how they tried to keep everything secret back then. Of course, today, many decades after, nobody has an excuse now with the trade-offs all too well known...so for example those timing belts designed to snap at 60 kilomiles and trash any interference-configuration engines unfortunate enough to have them, yeah, no excuse.

---Tony

[Emas9420]

So yesterday I attempted to re do the rear main seal. This time, to give me more working space i decided to remove the center links + tie rods.. much easier to do it this way.

When i pulled the cap out, this is what i found on the seal that was on the engine side (see attachment)...
I guess i found the culprit for my leaking issue. I think what happened was that i left too much of the seal out and i must have crushed it with the cap when installing and it ripped the rubber part of the seal.. i decided to push it in more this time leaving just a tiny bit out.. i did notice that the seal that went on to the cap was a bit longer than the actual cap.. meaning that when installed evenly, it was sticking out on both sides... kind of weird.. i don't remember if the old one was like that but anyways, i re installed the seal..

Now for the dreaded side seals, i gave in and re used the old ones.. the old ones were from a rope seal kit that i had used last time that fit perfectly.. i had to reuse because the new ones again where too fat.. i tried to dig the groove a bit more as per Tony but i didn't have a dremel and was taking too long with a drill. either way, it is so much bigger that i was scared that regardless of what i did it would not go in..

Anyways, I put everything back together. fired it up and................................................ no leak .
I still have to test this, don't want to call it a victory just yet. After i finished i turned the car on, let it run a good 10 minutes and no drip. This was Saturday. On Sunday when i went outside in the morning to finish with the steering, i noticed 2 small drops from the same place.. i cleaned it off, and worked on the car.. no leak while it was off. I then lowered the car so it was now leveled and turned it on.. did not see any leaks, but did not drive.
This morning coming to work, when i parked i decided to check and i saw a few small drops on the same place (between engine + tranny) but not "dripping". I turned the car on while parked for about 2 minutes and no drip..

I don't mind a few drops.. before it was a constant leak while running and when off it would leak any residuals. HOPEFULLY, i solved this issue that was driving me crazy. Once i check that there is no active leak, i will add the ZDDP... I had this theory (probably incorrect) that possibly the ZDDP caused the seal to break prematurely.. Only because before doing the seal, i ran the car as i got it with a tiny leak (no ZDDP although not sure what the dealer had in it). when i did the cap i added the zddp at the same time.. so who knows. im sure its not the issue but i figured i try one at a time, either way its just 1 day (10 miles) so can't hurt the engine that bad. I am also debating if to put in AT 205 for good measure. I kind of don't want to touch it if its not leaking. I'm afraid adding anything other than the oil will cause it to leak and i do NOT want to do this again (specially because i think i cross threaded an oil pan bolt at the back )