Mark III Exhaust Manifold

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Mark III Exhaust Manifold

Postby Wixomhead » Wed Apr 28, 2021 6:01 pm

100K Miles and pass side has been leaking, cold and under load. I determined the leak is coming from FRONT of passenger side manifold, somewhere.

Finally had enough, 100K is 100K. So I drove the car for half an hour and parked it. Immediately removed the air cleaner, plug wires, heat shield (I wire brushed the front exh manifold nut/stud best I could but when I went to remove the nut the stud SNAPPED). Laugh out loud, ha ha ha, whatever.

I then began slowly torqueing out the next 7 manifold bolts - 2 came out and 2 SNAPPED (just below the bolt head). Such wonderful times, but can't see wasting any more energy trying to access and/or remove remaining 3 bolts this way (snap them from below? twiest them in two from wheel well?) so I am now resigned to removing the head. Will try ignoring the ATC box. Will that last, lower head bolt come loose with a (7/8?) box end wrench? Thoughts and advice?

#whatdididowrong #whatwouldyoudonow

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Re: Mark III Exhaust Manifold

Postby action » Wed Apr 28, 2021 6:32 pm

You are having a typical experience on any exhaust manifold bolt on any engine that is 50 years old or more. The way that I have seen bolts & studs removed without breaking is with heat. But to do that the engine would have had to come out.

As to removing head bolts on a 385 engine block, I believe the installation torque is well over 100 pounds feet. Which means those bolts are two boys and a dog tight. (Sorry that was a technical term) Cheater bars, longer breaker bars and just brute force will be needed for this event. For all of the bolts I would use a 6 point socket on a 1/2" or 3/4" drive breaker bar. Or impact if you can get it in there with a gun. If possible do not use an extension.
That is going to work for nearly all of the head bolts with the possible exception of the lower most rear head bolt. That one is gonna be a bit tricky to get to. A box end wrench may work but the spacing is very tight. And a boxed end will be 12 point so getting a good grip on the head bolt end is critical. What ever it takes or fits use that.

After the intake is off, the exhaust pipe to manifold disconnected and all head bolts removed, take the head and manifold off as one unit. (BTW that won't be light) Carefully remove from the engine compartment. Place on something substantial. Take a break with a beverage.

Recommend a newer manifold as those newer designs have been reinforced to prevent cracking and warpage. The head surfaces may need to be machined slightly to be flat. Do check those as doing this once is bad enough. Doing a second time just ain't fun. And of course the old exhaust manifold bolts have to be extracted. Install new ones with anti-seize. Something that was never used decades ago. The other method of re-assembly might be with studs and nuts. But there has to be enough room for the manifolds to clear the studs if you remove again. Not sure there is that kind of Real Estate.

Good luck, it is kind of a big job. And if you would like to share, I am sure all of us would like to see. The good, the bad and you know .....the definitely not pretty.

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1996 Lincoln Mark VIII 2DR Coupe Diamond Anniversary 4.6l DOHC, 4R70W, 3.07
1970 Continental Mark III Triple Black 460 4v, C6, 2.80 (Used for Woodward Dream Cruise or just generally stored in Michigan)
1966 Lincoln Continental 4DR Convertible 462 4v, C6, 3.00
1966 Mercury Park Lane 4DR Breezeway 410 4v, C6, 2.80
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Re: Mark III Exhaust Manifold

Postby Wixomhead » Thu Apr 29, 2021 5:56 am

Good stuff, thanks for the quick reply. Yeah, I've removed heads from 460 before but it's been awhile and I believe motor was out of the car...So off comes the hood, out comes the coolant, off with the intake and I am now seriously considering (WHILE I AM COMMITTED):

a) Lift/remove entire engine just to get proper 6 pt on that last bolt?
b) R&R other head/manifold because 100K?
c) Valve job because heads going to shop anyway?
d) R&R water pump, mild aftermarket cam (for fun) and lifters?
e) There's always an e and I have been struggling with my new/rebuilt Autolite 4300 for years.

Thanks again
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Re: Mark III Exhaust Manifold

Postby action » Thu Apr 29, 2021 10:37 am

Now you are being an over achiever!

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Phoenix - Yeah, it's hot, however it's a dry heat
2006 Lincoln Navigator Limited 5.4l 3V
1996 Lincoln Mark VIII 2DR Coupe Diamond Anniversary 4.6l DOHC, 4R70W, 3.07
1970 Continental Mark III Triple Black 460 4v, C6, 2.80 (Used for Woodward Dream Cruise or just generally stored in Michigan)
1966 Lincoln Continental 4DR Convertible 462 4v, C6, 3.00
1966 Mercury Park Lane 4DR Breezeway 410 4v, C6, 2.80
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Re: Mark III Exhaust Manifold

Postby TonyC » Thu Apr 29, 2021 11:40 am

I'm not sure how much my recent experience will help, as my engine is a 462; but I'll share what I did with my recent head surgery...which was necessary but ended up causing more problems for me which are still unresolved. :smt010 :smt011

But I digress. In my engine bay, the lower-rearmost head bolt is a real trial to reach; it's almost against the evaporator case. Four years ago I had to deal with it, and I remembered the extreme difficulty I had with my short socket and extension. For this last time, I took a gamble with a new deep-well socket, and it worked great, not just on that bolt but on all 10. I didn't even need the extension for the other 9 bolts, which was different from four years ago, but still needed the extension for the hard one; however, the longer socket somehow made the angle of approach more manageable.

Maybe that can help you out. Now, you really have to consult your shop manual to bone up on the procedure; head surgery is not something for the faint-of-heart (as if I'M one to talk, doing a job like this with a leaky valve and no assistants!). There is specific guidance which I dare say must be followed. With my engine, bolts need to be torqued in an established sequence, and that sequence must be done three times at differing torque specs, the final being 137 foot-pounds. Boy, that was fun, pulling that degree of torque 20 times...but not all on the same day, which is why I'm still here and not in a hospital bed (or morgue slab).

---Tony
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Re: Mark III Exhaust Manifold

Postby Wixomhead » Fri Apr 30, 2021 9:51 am

OK

@tonyc: Thanks for the advice! Yeah, I have a complete 462 sitting on a stand behind my barn and wouldn't mind removing those heads at all ha ha. Deepwell socket? I can't even fit a standard socket in that space (let alone with a wrench attached) as the angle is such that there's only an inch between the head and the ATC housing. So not sure I am following, but my plan is now to buy a 6 pt box end wrench, try and slide a pipe over it and slowly heave. Really don't want to pull the motor.


PULL HEAD VS PULL MOTOR AND HEAD = PULL HEAD WINS
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PREP TO PULL INTAKE
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FIRST CHALLENGE: HOW ACCESS/REMOVE (2) 5/8" BOLTS HOLDING THERMACTOR PIPE BEHIND HEADS?
Image

SECOND CHALLENGE: ANYONE GOT SOURCE FOR THIS/PREFER KEEP AS ORIG AS POSS
Image
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Re: Mark III Exhaust Manifold

Postby action » Fri Apr 30, 2021 10:50 am

Thermactor pipe -
Once intake is removed you may have more working room to get down there
Not sure if there is space from the under side.
OR disconnect everything else from thermactor pipe and take the pipe with the head
A few years ago I sold that pipe for about $50. Fits 429 Mustang and those guys have deep pockets.

The bottom pic is a 5 way "tee" I think. Not sure about pic
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Phoenix - Yeah, it's hot, however it's a dry heat
2006 Lincoln Navigator Limited 5.4l 3V
1996 Lincoln Mark VIII 2DR Coupe Diamond Anniversary 4.6l DOHC, 4R70W, 3.07
1970 Continental Mark III Triple Black 460 4v, C6, 2.80 (Used for Woodward Dream Cruise or just generally stored in Michigan)
1966 Lincoln Continental 4DR Convertible 462 4v, C6, 3.00
1966 Mercury Park Lane 4DR Breezeway 410 4v, C6, 2.80
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Re: Mark III Exhaust Manifold

Postby Wixomhead » Fri Apr 30, 2021 1:55 pm

Removing the valve cover helped enough to barely fit a 5/8 socket/ratchet on the bolt to remove it. I thought I had to remove the Thermactor tube in order for the manifold to clear it's 3/4" high studs.

Good progress today, intake is now free ... hood, valve train, head bolts next. Thanks again guys for all the help.

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Re: Mark III Exhaust Manifold

Postby action » Fri Apr 30, 2021 3:15 pm

Just to make your job bigger ....
As long as all of those parts are coming off, I would suggest a fresh coat of correct factory blue.

Action
Phoenix - Yeah, it's hot, however it's a dry heat
2006 Lincoln Navigator Limited 5.4l 3V
1996 Lincoln Mark VIII 2DR Coupe Diamond Anniversary 4.6l DOHC, 4R70W, 3.07
1970 Continental Mark III Triple Black 460 4v, C6, 2.80 (Used for Woodward Dream Cruise or just generally stored in Michigan)
1966 Lincoln Continental 4DR Convertible 462 4v, C6, 3.00
1966 Mercury Park Lane 4DR Breezeway 410 4v, C6, 2.80
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Re: Mark III Exhaust Manifold

Postby Dan Szwarc » Fri Apr 30, 2021 6:48 pm

Bingo: https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/CRB2616

TT from Napa! You'll never guess how I found it!
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Re: Mark III Exhaust Manifold

Postby Wixomhead » Sat May 01, 2021 2:02 pm

Dan: Wow, thanks for the legwork/saved me mucho time and trouble. Also says they are in stock at my local NAPA. Double bingo!

Action: Sure. Which is correct for 1971 (corporate, old or ford?) :)

Finally got the last head bolt free today:
a) removed pass side motor mount (long) bolt. Removed fan and shroud.
b) jacked up motor as far as I dared in order to raise angle of head bolt enough to fit 3/4" socket and 1/2" drive breaker
c) of course I also had to remove the tiny, sheet metal screw holding the loser EVAP case metal protector plate on - the breaker bar wouldn't fit in place as that tiny screw was in the way, unbelievable
d) broke the head bolt free ... but almost imm the breaker bar jammed against the Evap case
e) (there's always an e) replaced the 1/2" drive/socket with a 3/8" ratchet and much shorter 3/4" socket to remove.
f) dropped engine back into place.

Obviously that last bolt is staying with the head and I'll have to remember to insert it before reinstall...no clue how I'm going to get a torque wrench in there, assume I'll have to wing it (3 times in sequence).

Now I have to crowbar free the heads (and exh manifolds) from the block (advice?) and either dig up, assemble and maneuver my Hobo Freight engine hoist or rig a pulley from the rafters above to get those heads outta there.

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BY THE WAY

What's this discoloration I see under my valve covers, here?

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Re: Mark III Exhaust Manifold

Postby action » Sat May 01, 2021 3:21 pm

[quote="Wixomhead"]
Action: Sure. Which is correct for 1971 (corporate, old or ford?) :)

What's this discoloration I see under my valve covers, here?

Image
/quote]

Corporate
http://www.mustangandfords.com/how-to/p ... gine-paint
I usually prefer to follow pony car guys. I really don't like them because they can get pretty arrogant.
In addition they will argue about the tinest details like the orientation of the flat side of their head bolts

So when they are done and have gotten all bloody someone has done research on the lowest factory floor level and has the data I want. Especially about the 385 block which is kind of rare for a pony car. And point 000 six tenth of them have one. But they know what color it should be.

As to the other color you are seeing under the valve cover, that looks like water my friend. Or more correctly moisture. (Unless it is a paint daub that has gone wild) There is not enough of it to look like a gasket leak.
More like condensation.
The engine does not get used enough especially in humid climate when the temperature drops
OR the engine oil is not changed frequently enough
OR the thermostat is too cold or stuck open such that the engine does not heat up fast enough.

Long long time ago in a college located in the state with two peninsulas I did a valve job on a 429 in a 70 LTD Brougham. (Loved that car)
The removal and installation was done on a public street. (The work was done in the college machine shop)
That lower rear head bolt on the right side never did get torqued with a torque wrench. It got turned down as far as I could with a socket and a breaker bar. And I added a piece of pipe on the bar for leverage.
The engine lasted longer than the car
Don't know how many miles but it was years. And when the car rusted out I sold the engine to a tech at Duthler Ford. He pulled the engine and ran it hard in a sand rail.
The proper torque is important. However the Real Estate was not there for me so very long ago in the street. All the other bolts got their turn. The lower rear on the right side just got damn tight for a spec.

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Phoenix - Yeah, it's hot, however it's a dry heat
2006 Lincoln Navigator Limited 5.4l 3V
1996 Lincoln Mark VIII 2DR Coupe Diamond Anniversary 4.6l DOHC, 4R70W, 3.07
1970 Continental Mark III Triple Black 460 4v, C6, 2.80 (Used for Woodward Dream Cruise or just generally stored in Michigan)
1966 Lincoln Continental 4DR Convertible 462 4v, C6, 3.00
1966 Mercury Park Lane 4DR Breezeway 410 4v, C6, 2.80
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Re: Mark III Exhaust Manifold

Postby Wixomhead » Wed May 05, 2021 3:11 pm

Finally got both heads off and out. Driver side did NOT want to come loose but crowbar did the job ... evenutally and with a lot of rocking.

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Re: Mark III Exhaust Manifold

Postby Dan Szwarc » Wed May 05, 2021 5:41 pm

Ahh. The good old 460 manifold crack. Nice.

I think they finally fixed this in 1974. D4AE-Something.
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Re: Mark III Exhaust Manifold

Postby action » Wed May 05, 2021 6:12 pm

Wixomhead wrote:Finally got both heads off and out. Driver side did NOT want to come loose but crowbar did the job ... evenutally and with a lot of rocking.

Image


That lower rear head bolt is still in the head!!!!

Action
Phoenix - Yeah, it's hot, however it's a dry heat
2006 Lincoln Navigator Limited 5.4l 3V
1996 Lincoln Mark VIII 2DR Coupe Diamond Anniversary 4.6l DOHC, 4R70W, 3.07
1970 Continental Mark III Triple Black 460 4v, C6, 2.80 (Used for Woodward Dream Cruise or just generally stored in Michigan)
1966 Lincoln Continental 4DR Convertible 462 4v, C6, 3.00
1966 Mercury Park Lane 4DR Breezeway 410 4v, C6, 2.80
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