how to fix this coolant drip

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Re: how to fix this coolant drip

Post by action »

Or an installation error.

And the most likely area, is the rear main seal. That is by far the most frequent engine leaker in that area of the engine after the valve covers.

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1996 Lincoln Mark VIII 2DR Coupe Diamond Anniversary 4.6l DOHC, 4R70W, 3.07
1970 Continental Mark III Triple Black 460 4v, C6, 2.80 (Used for Woodward Dream Cruise or just generally stored in Michigan)
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1966 Mercury Park Lane 4DR Breezeway 410 4v, C6, 2.80
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Re: how to fix this coolant drip

Post by bagged59 »

Are oily bubbles from the crankcase breather normal?
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Re: how to fix this coolant drip

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'59 Continental 2dr hardtop, burgundy, 460, AOD, 9" rear, 4-wheel Wilwood disc brakes, air ride, vintage air. purchased 7/7/06. Restoration in progress...

https://www.instagram.com/paulrosowicz/
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Re: how to fix this coolant drip

Post by action »

Not sure how to answer this question based on that picture alone and the non-stock arrangement.

The crankcase venting purges blow by in the engine by a hose that goes to the intake or just below the carb base. The blow by is sucked out of the crankcase and into the intake to be burned. That hose is controlled by a PCV valve.

On the other side of the system there is an opening to allow fresh air into the crankcase because new air has to fill the crankcase. In the old days the new fresh air was barely filtered. Later there were different ways of getting fresh filtered air in.

There is one other piece needed to be stated. The pressure in the crankcase can fluctuate greatly. Because more blow-by is generated when the engine is at WOT. Under that scenario the pressure in the crankcase can exceed what the intake is drawing out. So crankcase pressure would push out air the fresh air intake of the system. Some of that air may have oil.

IF the picture is the breather for fresh air to go into the crankcase and you mash on the gas, oil and air may be blown out that filter. Really there should be an oil separator under the filter. Or you have a piston ring problem.

My guess is it was made to introduce fresh air into the crankcase. In addition it was made for show. It is not the best design and will be a problem at higher RPM. And it would work better if there was an oil separator with it.

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Phoenix - Yeah, it's hot, however it's a dry heat
2006 Lincoln Navigator Limited 5.4l 3V
1996 Lincoln Mark VIII 2DR Coupe Diamond Anniversary 4.6l DOHC, 4R70W, 3.07
1970 Continental Mark III Triple Black 460 4v, C6, 2.80 (Used for Woodward Dream Cruise or just generally stored in Michigan)
1966 Lincoln Continental 4DR Convertible 462 4v, C6, 3.00
1966 Mercury Park Lane 4DR Breezeway 410 4v, C6, 2.80
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Re: how to fix this coolant drip

Post by JimA »

Valve covers usually have baffles built in but I had one pair that did not. The baffles prevent most of the oil being thrown around by the rocker arms from blowing out the vent. If your valve covers don't have baffles the easiest fix might be to just replace them with some that do have them. The baffles, if they are present, are visible when you remove the filter/cap.

If your covers do have baffles, and that video is taken with the engine idling, it looks like the engine has excessive blow by.
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Re: how to fix this coolant drip

Post by bagged59 »

the breathers in the valve covers were filled so that they'd look pretty so we added that filter on the intake manifold. that filter also doubles as the oil fill hole. the video was taken at idle. the more and more i run this engine, the more issues i am finding. with the rear main seal leaking, the engine is coming out at the end of summer. the guy that built my engine came highly referred. when i told my friend about my engine issues, who also referred me to him, he THEN says he's heard about people with problems with his engines. wow thanks a lot, assh*ole. 5k down the drain and the search for another engine builder begins.
'59 Continental 2dr hardtop, burgundy, 460, AOD, 9" rear, 4-wheel Wilwood disc brakes, air ride, vintage air. purchased 7/7/06. Restoration in progress...

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Re: how to fix this coolant drip

Post by frasern »

As I am not familiar with your exact set up, or how much you have already diagnosed, I can only throw some ideas into the mix, which may or may not help.
The crankcase pressure looks like more than just blow by. Could the PCV be attached to an incorrect source, (pressure vs. vac).
There are 2 types of intake gaskets for a 460, the early type fiber gaskets had no baffle, later steel ones did. So, were the heads planed? sometimes they are planed on a slight angle, to increase compression, but still line up with the bolt holes on the intake. if that is the case, the steel gasket may not seal as well, and pressure from the exhaust crossover may be entering the crankcase. This is unlikely, a vacuum leak is more common there.
The stock 460 dip stick is front mounted, some trucks may have a pan mounted one, as the 400 did. I don't know if that is a custom pan, or a factory one. With the angle of your engine, the factory calibration on a front dipstick, would have the oil at the rear, about 2 inches higher, or mid way up the crank. This would be an overfill, that will find ways to escape.
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Re: how to fix this coolant drip

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bagged59 wrote:the breathers in the valve covers were filled so that they'd look pretty so we added that filter on the intake manifold. that filter also doubles as the oil fill hole. the video was taken at idle. the more and more i run this engine, the more issues i am finding. with the rear main seal leaking, the engine is coming out at the end of summer. the guy that built my engine came highly referred. when i told my friend about my engine issues, who also referred me to him, he THEN says he's heard about people with problems with his engines. wow thanks a lot, assh*ole. 5k down the drain and the search for another engine builder begins.
In an effort to make the engine pretty, you may have restricted the crankcase venting.

Besides that vent/oil fill hole, is there any other hose into the crankcase?
Because there needs to be or you have have another issue. Shortened oil life.

Assuming that "filter"/oil fill allows fresh air in. There needs to be some other part of the crankcase connected to a hose that is connected to the intake. (Ideally with a PCV valve) That hose would suck out blow by gases out of the crankcase to be burned. And the filter allows fresh air in. Otherwise the bigger problem is you have is a pre-1930 or so engine where the oil needs to be changed every 500 miles because it gets so polluted with blow by gases. Because there is no internal venting.

And the excessive pressure in the engine without venting is hard on seals and gaskets to keep the engine oil tight.

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Phoenix - Yeah, it's hot, however it's a dry heat
2006 Lincoln Navigator Limited 5.4l 3V
1996 Lincoln Mark VIII 2DR Coupe Diamond Anniversary 4.6l DOHC, 4R70W, 3.07
1970 Continental Mark III Triple Black 460 4v, C6, 2.80 (Used for Woodward Dream Cruise or just generally stored in Michigan)
1966 Lincoln Continental 4DR Convertible 462 4v, C6, 3.00
1966 Mercury Park Lane 4DR Breezeway 410 4v, C6, 2.80
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Re: how to fix this coolant drip

Post by bagged59 »

there's no other hoses to vent the engine. i dont have a pcv system on it. the breather that i have on it now does NOT have a baffle in it to prevent (or drastically limit) the oil from getting up into the filter. i lost the dipstick when i put the serpentine belt system on it. i found a couple of breathers online that are internally baffled. im waiting on the sellers to respond about the thread size of them. i have a threaded 1" hole now. as of now im just trying to work out the mechanicals. the engine fires and runs. i'm trying to find some wheels to get the car on the ground and rolling before im going to pull the engine to fix the rear main seal. i used a UV light and the additive to find oil leaks and i found some up front too.
the engine is angled about 5 degrees. i have a 5 degree wedge but the lokar throttle and kickdown setup has a spacer that raises the carb up. with the 5 degree wedge installed, the carb sits too high and will hit the hood.

thanks, paul

edit: is there supposed to be some sort of valley pan under the intake in a 460? when i look thru the fill hole i can see the lifters. i can try to get a picture in a minute.
'59 Continental 2dr hardtop, burgundy, 460, AOD, 9" rear, 4-wheel Wilwood disc brakes, air ride, vintage air. purchased 7/7/06. Restoration in progress...

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Re: how to fix this coolant drip

Post by bagged59 »

View into the abyss lol
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'59 Continental 2dr hardtop, burgundy, 460, AOD, 9" rear, 4-wheel Wilwood disc brakes, air ride, vintage air. purchased 7/7/06. Restoration in progress...

https://www.instagram.com/paulrosowicz/
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Re: how to fix this coolant drip

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You said, "edit: is there supposed to be some sort of valley pan under the intake in a 460? when i look thru the fill hole i can see the lifters. i can try to get a picture in a minute."

The answer is not really. At least not in that location. See attached pic of a stock 385 block manifold.

The manifold you have is NOT stock. Likely an Edelbrock. Not sure what that came with. And in that location YES you could see lifters from that location. The other thing about that location is there is a lot of a splash. There is a lot of motion and lots of things happening. And yes you are going to get oil thrown up in that area. ESPECIALLY if there is lots of pressure internally. And based on what you have said, there is going to be a lot of pressure because that engine has no where for the blow by pressure to go! The piston rings do not make a perfect seal. And brand new ones are worse until they are broken in. Maybe a 1000 miles to several times that. While the piston rings will seal better after that time, they will NEVER seal perfectly. That engine (all engines) will produce blow by gasses. Those gases have to go somewhere. If the only outlet those gases have to go is out that filter, those gases will vent out there and take some oil with it. Especially when the accelerator pedal is pushed. Which will make that real pretty engine real messy, real quick.

Unless or until the pressure pushes out a gasket or seal.

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Phoenix - Yeah, it's hot, however it's a dry heat
2006 Lincoln Navigator Limited 5.4l 3V
1996 Lincoln Mark VIII 2DR Coupe Diamond Anniversary 4.6l DOHC, 4R70W, 3.07
1970 Continental Mark III Triple Black 460 4v, C6, 2.80 (Used for Woodward Dream Cruise or just generally stored in Michigan)
1966 Lincoln Continental 4DR Convertible 462 4v, C6, 3.00
1966 Mercury Park Lane 4DR Breezeway 410 4v, C6, 2.80
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Re: how to fix this coolant drip

Post by bagged59 »

It's an Edelbrock intake. My real pretty engine is a real mess already and it hasn't moved an inch.

I've found baffled crankcase breathers. They claim to help with oil coming thru the filter. What are your thoughts about baffled breathers?
'59 Continental 2dr hardtop, burgundy, 460, AOD, 9" rear, 4-wheel Wilwood disc brakes, air ride, vintage air. purchased 7/7/06. Restoration in progress...

https://www.instagram.com/paulrosowicz/
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Re: how to fix this coolant drip

Post by action »

A baffled filter will help. It may keep less oil from getting outside the engine.
It just does not fix the crankcase venting. Nor the pressures that will develop when you accelerate from a stop sign.

I would suspect under a hard acceleration on a warmed up engine, baffle or not, oil will blow out that opening as you have the engine currently built.

Basically you have a very short road draft tube that does not have the advantage of a moving vehicle to help suck out blow by gases. Look up the oil change interval for any engine built before WWII.

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Phoenix - Yeah, it's hot, however it's a dry heat
2006 Lincoln Navigator Limited 5.4l 3V
1996 Lincoln Mark VIII 2DR Coupe Diamond Anniversary 4.6l DOHC, 4R70W, 3.07
1970 Continental Mark III Triple Black 460 4v, C6, 2.80 (Used for Woodward Dream Cruise or just generally stored in Michigan)
1966 Lincoln Continental 4DR Convertible 462 4v, C6, 3.00
1966 Mercury Park Lane 4DR Breezeway 410 4v, C6, 2.80
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Re: how to fix this coolant drip

Post by bagged59 »

Would a capable engine builder have said hey this isn't the right way to vent the engine and gave me the proper advice?
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https://www.instagram.com/paulrosowicz/
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Re: how to fix this coolant drip

Post by action »

Some one versed in basic engine systems would know that. I learned in high school auto shop. (I have college education and worked for the company for almost a decade) With high school education may not understand why with that level of education.
someone who just replaces parts even with a lot of experience in self taught parts replacement that may not understand. The system doesn't have to be stock

http://mewagner.com/
https://help.summitracing.com/app/answe ... entilation
https://dannysengineportal.com/positive ... oes-it-do/'
https://www.enginebasics.com/Engine%20B ... ation.html
https://www.hotrod.com/articles/venting ... -pressure/

I could find more articles and I think you get the idea.

Maybe there is sometime more on your engine that I am missing, I am not a fan of modifications. Not at all. However I understand why guys modify things and want a "look". However engineering, design and execution are now part of the modifiers consideration. I get you want a certain look. And that is OK if the vehicle is static like a piece of art. But if the vehicle is going to be used, function over form has to have some consideration. The factory employed (many) engineers that over time hundreds of thousands of dollars was spent to crate a working design. There is a reason for doing those things.

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Last edited by action on Sat Apr 17, 2021 10:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
Phoenix - Yeah, it's hot, however it's a dry heat
2006 Lincoln Navigator Limited 5.4l 3V
1996 Lincoln Mark VIII 2DR Coupe Diamond Anniversary 4.6l DOHC, 4R70W, 3.07
1970 Continental Mark III Triple Black 460 4v, C6, 2.80 (Used for Woodward Dream Cruise or just generally stored in Michigan)
1966 Lincoln Continental 4DR Convertible 462 4v, C6, 3.00
1966 Mercury Park Lane 4DR Breezeway 410 4v, C6, 2.80
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