Nick's 462 adventure

[LithiumCobalt]

I thought I would start a thread in the engine and drivetrain section to hopefully get more exposure to my 1967 convertible project. My intent, at this point, is to make the car a very nice driver and possibly a show car someday. I'd like to make it as reliable as I can. Anyways, the start with any project are the mechanicals so I will start with some history and let those of you in the know tell me what you would do next.

My car shows 97k on the odometer, although the speedo cable is broken so hard telling how many true miles. The car was smoking badly when I parked it (could just be faulty choke), although it does start and run. My first item of attack was the starter and I got that done. My next item was to fix the leaking RH exhaust manifold gasket. Unfortunately, I rounded off one of the retaining bolts to the mainfold. So, I figured the only way to get this thing the rest of the way off is to pull the head. This is where I stopped. I've acknowledged the head must come off regardless, but how much "extra" work do I do given I don't know the history of the car or have the know-how to attack a complete pull and rebuild?

Considering I wasn't planning to do a full rebuild, and it may not even be necessary anyways, I thought since the head was out, I'd have a valve job done with new seals, hardened seats, new rockers, springs, etc. No sense to pull it and not at least do that. Do I stop at this point? Do I replace pushrods too? I was already planning to replace the timing set and oil pump. Will a compression check give enough assurance the piston rings and the rest of the engine is good? The reason I am worried about the rings is because there was a stong gasoline smell in the oil and there was less than a gallon of oil drained from the car. The oil is either being burned or leaked.

So, my plan is this:

-Check compression on all cylinders

-If good compression, have valve job done combined with new exhaust manifold gaskets, new head gaskets and valley pan gasket and then continue on with timing set, etc. and be happy - only things worried about would be rusty freeze plugs, cam, crank and pistons that wouldn't get attention - I doubt anyone has ever used ZDDP like they should have.

-If bad compression, pull engine for full rebuild

So, am I on the right track here? Does this sound logical? I just don't want to go deep enough to get heads off and have a valve job and then be sorry I didn't do the rest, but also don't want to waste time and money. I don't have the know-how or the time to pull the engine and then to detail the bay properly like it should be. Besides, if it did need to come out, I'd at least want to wait though the long cold winter and that's a lot of wasted time where the car would just sit. So, what would you do if you were in my shoes?

[cliffdavis]

I think you're on the right track. If you're making decent compression AND decent oil pressure, IMO there's no compelling reason to open the bottom end.

Unscrew the oil pressure sender and screw a pressure gauge right into the block. Warm it up, check your idle pressure, then spin it up to around 2k and check the cruise pressure. Now that it's warmed up, check compression. Enjoy the physics lesson re: heat transfer, namely from the manifolds to your hands!

A word of caution: your cylinder head, with the mani attached, is well over 100 pounds of angry cast iron. Make it a two-man job and save yourself a lot of grief. I would try everything I could to get that rounded bolt out FIRST, so you can remove them separately. There are special 'hammer-on' sockets for this.

Put a straightedge on the manifolds- they like to warp which will earn them a trip to the machine shop for surfacing.

I hope this helps. Keep us posted.

[Milsteads Garage]

I have noticed problems with ZDDP deficient oils on old cars that were used in the last 8 years and this is a fairly recent phenomenon. If the car was last used since 2000 and back, it's a good chance it had the right oil in it. As far as the bolt/nut with the rounded head, I would try cutting/grinding or torching the head off of the bolt first before you pull the cylinder head. Definitely consider that a last ditch effort. Personally, try not to make a monster out of this car by digging into things too far. If you can get that manifold off without removing the head, and your engine suits you with the way it runs I would leave it alone. MEL engines are quite durable and are not very problematic. Now your smoking problem, what does it exactly do? If it smokes white or blue at startup and goes away, it is your valve stem seals, easy fix. If it smokes white or blue constantly, then you have a worn engine-OR- a transmission modulator that is ruptured.

[LC67Vert]

Your plan sounds good. Check compression and oil pressure first. Then go from there. Also, try to determine if the excessive smoking is due to a carburator problem.

[TonyC]

Nick, I agree with Morgan. Perhaps you should just decapitate the rounded bolt head and remove the exhaust manifold. You can then take it to a machine shop that can remove the rest of that bolt without damaging the manifold. A head job isn't rocket science, but it is very tedious and drawn out, and it does require a significant amount of physical fitness in upper-body muscles (those heads are not light). All the things you mentioned doing to the head if you removed it are nice, but unless a vacuum gauge or compression test confirms a need for them, you probably don't need them at this point. I'd say hold off on those things unless you're certain you need them.

---Tony

[dan468]

Pulled my heads yesterday, took about two hours (i was even being lazy about it) and I believe it's worth it for getting them set up for unleaded gas. I pulled the heads with the manifold. My question is...how the heck did you get to the lower exh manifold bolts???

[Deco]

Pull the timing chain cover and look to see if you have the nylon gears/sprockets (which you probably do). In that case replace them now. If there is teeth missing you will need to drop the oil pan and fish them out before they sieze your oil pump. An if you end up doing this, put a high volume oil pump in.

[LithiumCobalt]

Pulled my heads yesterday, took about two hours (i was even being lazy about it) and I believe it's worth it for getting them set up for unleaded gas. I pulled the heads with the manifold. My question is...how the heck did you get to the lower exh manifold bolts???

It wasn't quite as difficult as I thought, but I also haven't attempted the bolt behind the manifold outlet on the driver side whick looks like it can only be attacked from below. I detached the exhaust pipe at the manifold, released both engine mounts and jacked the entire engine block up about 2 inches and placed blocks between the mounts and frame to hold it (like the manual specifies). I got two out, rounded the third one and haven't even attempted the last one all the way in the back. It didn't help that I had to use a socket and a damn 4 foot pipe to get these things to break loose. I guess 15-20 ft. lbs. turns into more like 90-100 ft. lbs. over time. At the angle these manifolds are, for some bolts if you use a regular socket and short extension, it's too long and hits the fender. If you use a deep well socket with no extension, it's almost too short. Of course, you also have adapters depending on if you are using 3/8, 1/2 or 3/4" drives and have to hold the dumb pipe in the air trying not to let it beat up your exterior all the while holding the socket square on the bolt head. I wasn't quite sucessful at juggling all of that as you can see. I will get it, though.

As the wheels turn in my head, I came across some special sockets for this very special situation. All of the tool makers have them. Irwin makes a kit called BOLT GRIP, Craftsman makes a set and so does Snap-On and probably everyone else. ANyone had any luck with these? I am going to give that bolt head some more hell with one of these kits and if I can't get it out, off with the head!

[LithiumCobalt]

Pull the timing chain cover and look to see if you have the nylon gears/sprockets (which you probably do). In that case replace them now. If there is teeth missing you will need to drop the oil pan and fish them out before they sieze your oil pump. An if you end up doing this, put a high volume oil pump in.

You bet, Deco. It was going to be my next victim after the exhaust manifold gasket.

[dan468]

Why not just pull the head?

[LithiumCobalt]

Why not just pull the head?

Well, I guess I could. Never done it before. I was waiting for peer pressure to tell me that I should. Keep in mind, I have never done mechanial work to this extent on anything, but I am willing to dig in and learn as long as I get good direction.

[ReijerLincoln]

Pull the timing chain cover and look to see if you have the nylon gears/sprockets (which you probably do). In that case replace them now. If there is teeth missing you will need to drop the oil pan and fish them out before they sieze your oil pump. An if you end up doing this, put a high volume oil pump in.

You bet, Deco. It was going to be my next victim after the exhaust manifold gasket.

Nick, also replace your original oil pump drive shaft with this billet drive shaft from Precision Oil Pumps in Ca, (559)325-3553. The original is literally as thin as a pencil and really isn't up to the job. This replacement works for the MEL engines. It is an FE drive that is +.0375" Longer for Main Girdle Applications. This shaft is about .075 too long, but the MEL guys get them and grind that amount off the bottom (pump end) to make them fit. Just use a bench grinder. The shafts are $20.00 plus shipping.

[LithiumCobalt]

Yep, I've got the pump drive shaft on my list too. I actually started researching all of this good stuff long ago and have a huge parts list started for everything. Is there a shaft available that is drop-in yet or do I still have to go with the one you referenced above and grind some off? I also don't quite understand the benefit of the thicker section of the shaft either. Isn't the shaft still only as strong as the ends where it is thinner?

[LithiumCobalt]

Dan, also curious how it only took you two hours to pull the heads? Don't you have to remove the intake, carb, valve covers, etc, etc, before you even get down to the head bolts?

[ReijerLincoln]

Is there a shaft available that is drop-in yet or do I still have to go with the one you referenced above and grind some off?

Not that I know.

I also don't quite understand the benefit of the thicker section of the shaft either. Isn't the shaft still only as strong as the ends where it is thinner?

This photo explains it better than I can: