Looking for 67 sedan or 'vert - what should I look for?

[LithiumCobalt]

Well, I have a potential lead on a '67 convertible. I've been in conversation with the owner and my wife and I are going to take a look at the car this weekend. One of my concerns is the car has what the owner describes as a 2" hole in the driver side floorboard. Other than that, he claims the body is rust free. I am worried that repair of this spot may actually turn into a bigger problem than it first seems. I am also guessing if there is corrosion here, there is likely corrosion other places, some maybe not as evident. So, my question is, how difficult is it to replace this area and still maintain the integrity of the car as well as the visual authenticity? Are there dry solid floorpans out there for sale? I just don't want to buy it thinking this will be a simple repair and then end up spending thousands to get it rectified.

He also mentioned there is some bondo in the rockers behind the rear doors. Is this an area that can be easily repaired or am I in for a major repair bill?

I'm a bit leary of overpaying for the car. Thoughts?

EDIT: Found this thread: http://www.thelincolnforum.net/phpbb3/v ... =5&t=31410

Anyone know how much it would cost a bodyshop to fab this up? Any info on the rockers?

Thanks guys,

Nick

[ekm330]

What you are asking cannot be answered in a forum, except to say that body work is expensive; especially if it's done correctly. There's no way to know how extensive a problem is until you start peeling it away. Like a small blemish on the skin of an onion could be a total abscess underneath, so can be the situation with rust. Every car has their weak points and the rear "dog legs" and rockers are particularly vulnerable on a slab side lincoln. The front rockers can rust out because the access panels behind the front wheels do not seal out all water and dirt/rocks/debris. It collects at the bottom of the channel and the little outlet holes in the bottom of the channels are too small to let the junk out. They become clogged and sand accumulates, holding water. I am extremely fortunate in that mine are still solid. I have had the panels off and blown out the sand and pebbles. I cleaned out the weep holes and I keep them cleaned out. I don't drive in the rain or on wet roads. After washings, I use my "Air Force Blaster" to blow out all crevices. It's amazing how much water stays hidden behind trim pieces and channels.

As for a convertible, I think you will be very hard pressed to find the nicest one that hasnt had some rust repair work done. The tops do not seal very well, nor do the windows where the front window meets the rear window. There's ample room for water to get inside between the tops of the windows and the roof material. The trunk lid doesnt seal very well either, especiall at the corners by the augers. So when it comes to convertibles, it's not a matter of does it have rust, it's a matter of how much rust and where is it? I wouldn't be too worried about some holes in the floor boards as much as I would be about rot in the rockers and dog legs.

[LC67Vert]

If the floorboards are rusty it probably means the car spent a fair amount of time outside and there will likely be rust in other places such as the lower part of the rear quarter panels, the rocker panels and the dog legs. If these last 2 areas are rusted you are looking at some fairly costly bodywork repairs if you want it done right (cut out old and weld in new metal). If you want the car to look good that may mean bodywork, new top, paint and interior work and you can easily budget $10,000 to $20,000 if your are going to have others do all the work. And if it needs mechanical work as well (front end, brakes, springs, shocks, power top mechanicals, exhaust, engine, trans, etc.) the costs really start to add up and could easily cost another $10,000. At least if you spend $30,000 to $40,000 on fixing up a convertible you have some chance of not spending too much more than the car is worth, but if you do it on a sedan you will surely spend more than the car is worth.

[LithiumCobalt]

If the floorboards are rusty it probably means the car spent a fair amount of time outside and there will likely be rust in other places such as the lower part of the rear quarter panels, the rocker panels and the dog legs. If these last 2 areas are rusted you are looking at some fairly costly bodywork repairs if you want it done right (cut out old and weld in new metal). If you want the car to look good that may mean bodywork, new top, paint and interior work and you can easily budget $10,000 to $20,000 if your are going to have others do all the work. And if it needs mechanical work as well (front end, brakes, springs, shocks, power top mechanicals, exhaust, engine, trans, etc.) the costs really start to add up and could easily cost another $10,000. At least if you spend $30,000 to $40,000 on fixing up a convertible you have some chance of not spending too much more than the car is worth, but if you do it on a sedan you will surely spend more than the car is worth.

The owner has assured me the only spot that needs attention is the driver side floorboard and behind the rear doors has some fill. I plan to look closely at the rear quarters and other places. He has offered to put it up on ramps so that we can crawl around under the car and take a closer look. From what it sounds like, a lot of the mechanicals have been addressed already so that makes me feel a little better about it. There's still an expensive list of other things to be addressed, however, including paint and removing the fill at some point. I'll just have to wait and see what it turns out like when we inspect and drive on Saturday. Hopefully it's one that still has some life left.

[LithiumCobalt]

Well, we went to look at the convertible on Saturday and liked the car, but we kept adding up the cost of restoring and decided this one might not be for us. We aren't sure if we have the stomach to pay 13k for the car and then turn around and plow another 15k into it to make it really nice. We came close to buying it, but just couldn't pay any more for the car and the owner wanted more than we were offering. So, the search continues. I am beginning to think we may be better off finding a sedan in really nice shape. The convertibles are nice, but so much more expensive not only to buy, but to restore and maintain as well. Who knows what we will end up with (it will be a '67 in some form). My Town Car fetched a fair amount of money on Ebay just last night so I am really starting to look seriously. Whether it's a sedan or convertible is yet to be discovered, but the nice part is knowing I have the cash ready to buy when I do find what I'm looking for so I'm able to take my time. We'll be heading to LCOC Mid-America meet in a month as well so maybe something will turn up there. In the meantime, I will be on the hunt. I will also call Cashman (if he is reachable while in the deep woods of Canada) and John @ LL to see if they know of anything out there.

[LithiumCobalt]

Just some thoughts out loud on sedans vs. convertibles... I understand there is a preference here for the convertible and I can understand that, but for the same amount of money I can sometimes find very nice sedans available, whereas a convertible is usually going to be somewhat ragged out and need a ton more work. With that said, I think I am leaning more towards the sedan (I like the roofline better and lesser expense of the top anyways). The wife would obviously prefer a convertible, but I just know what would happen when I plan to plow a ton of money into one making it right. She would grow weary and irritable and we would end up having to stop short of completing the project and that just ain't good. I have been watching auctions, ads, Hemmings, discussion here and elsewhere about the market for these vehicles, and I think a nice condition sedan is just going to be easier to afford. A convertible may be in our future at some point and if the right one came along tomorrow, I would still consider it. One thing I found odd is that even with only 2,276 convertibles produced in 1967, they are for sale everywhere it seems and sometimes for stupidly high prices. Try to find a sedan from the same year with the right color/option combo wherein there were over 30k produced, and it's quite a bit more challenging to even find one, although it's usually quite affordable if you can find one. Figure that one out.

[ekm330]

Well, we went to look at the convertible on Saturday and liked the car, but we kept adding up the cost of restoring and decided this one might not be for us. We aren't sure if we have the stomach to pay 13k for the car and then turn around and plow another 15k into it to make it really nice.

You are not quantifying the "enjoyment" factor. While you will not likely get back your dollar-for-dollar investment, you also have to consider the value of the enjoyment factor. Granted, it's not quantifyable in terms of dollars, but it does have an intrinsic value. If you have a son/daughter/wife that'd enjoy the process of restoring/renovating a totally cool, unique and desirable car along with you, that would fall under the Master Card mantra: "1967 Lincoln Continental Convertible, $14,500; repairs and restoration, $15,000; enjoyment of the process and myriad of thumbs-up and glares of envy, PRICELESS"

[LithiumCobalt]

You are not quantifying the "enjoyment" factor. While you will not likely get back your dollar-for-dollar investment, you also have to consider the value of the enjoyment factor. Granted, it's not quantifyable in terms of dollars, but it does have an intrinsic value. If you have a son/daughter/wife that'd enjoy the process of restoring/renovating a totally cool, unique and desirable car along with you, that would fall under the Master Card mantra: "1967 Lincoln Continental Convertible, $14,500; repairs and restoration, $15,000; enjoyment of the process and myriad of thumbs-up and glares of envy, PRICELESS"

I don't dispute the draw of the convertible. Yes, the enjoyment factor is going to be higher. Yes, I would like to have one. No, I am not buying one for resale, but to keep for a very long time so the dollar for dollar return isn't really a concern. I'm just thinking like most other Americans - buy a sedan already in decent condition - instant gratification. If I got a convertible within my budget, I know right off the bat it would need a ton of work. I'd want to make it a #2 car at a minimum and that costs time and a lot of dough. I also like doing things right the first time and making a car "correct" also. I guess that would happen on any old car, though. Ah, the joy of the search and decisions, decisions....

[LithiumCobalt]

Contacted Gordy Jensen in Minnesota as well as Frank Warner in Wisconsin. Frank didn't seem to think he had what I was looking for and Gordy had either parts cars or 100-point cars with nothing in between. Keeping an eye out at the obvious places like Hemmings, AutoTrader classics, Mecum, Ebay and Craigslist. So far nothing is really turning me on too much. Following up with John on a sedan he was going to see today and had a voicemail from someone with a tip (no idea who it was that called other than his name was Lee).

[briven95]

Have you considered another year? Like 66 or 68? If you widen the years you'll increase the potential of good cars that you may like. Very little difference between 66 & 67, especially if you find a car with manual A/C as opposed to auto A/C temp. control. But most importantly, be patient- the right car will be out there for you.

[LithiumCobalt]

Yeah, I definitely do not like the 68. The 66 is OK. Like you say, very little difference, but those subtleties is what makes me like the 67 more. I definitely do not like the floral-type pattern on the door panels of the 66 and I am too much of a purist to change them if I ended up with a 66. I also prefer the Lincoln star on the C-pillar rather than on the front fender. I know, minor things, but if I am waiting for one, might as well wait longer and get the one I want. Thanks for the advice to be patient. I have heard that from several others as well.

I have seen several 67 sedans that appear very nice for very affordable prices, but for some reason every one that I have seen has been white and I have never liked white exteriors. Go figure. I've been contacting a bunch of folks from the LCOC to see if anyone has anything out there. Mid-America meet is right around the corner so maybe something will turn up there. Who knows.

[ekm330]

Have you considered another year? Like 66 or 68? If you widen the years you'll increase the potential of good cars that you may like. Very little difference between 66 & 67

Uggghhh! Blasphemy! (don't be mad at me briven, I'm just chiming in with a degree of sharp wit... so, nothing personal )

There are distinct differences between '66, '67, and '68 that appeal to people differently. There are details exclusive to each year that may or may not appeal to lookers. I, too, prefer the Lincoln star on the C pillar, versus the front fender. No hood ornament is a big no no for me ('68). Seats, steering wheels and other seemingly subtle design differences between '66 and '68 can be HUGE factors with the disciminating buyer. (...and lemmetellya, Nick IS a discriminating buyer )

especially if you find a car with manual A/C as opposed to auto A/C temp. control.

Well, as long as it HAS a/c, that's cool (no pun, ); however, the automatic climate control option is quite nice

But most importantly, be patient- the right car will be out there for you.

The best advice you can get . As I have mentioned in our conversations, the car for you may take a few years (or a decade) to find. Patience is key. If you are able to define what you want, don't be quick to settle in order to pacify your "viceral wants". The right car will eventually present itself. You can't be in too much of a hurry to try and satiate that desire. The "right" car for you will eventually present itself. As briven said, be patient .

[LithiumCobalt]

Just thought I would share a quote from Kent (handle: EKM330) about convertibles:

"Most of them out there are turds that have been given a spit shine."

[ekm330]

Just thought I would share a quote from Kent (handle: EKM330) about convertibles:

"Most of them out there are turds that have been given a spit shine."

Correction: "Most of the ones on eBay have been turds that have been given a spit shine"

Shop carefully

[LithiumCobalt]

OK guys,

Bust out your critics hats. There is currently a 67 convertible in Alabama right now that the guy is asking $9,000 for. From what he says, the engine runs, but the gas tank has been removed. The car looks a little rough inside, especially the dash pad, which is trashed. The body looks to be in OK condition. Mechanicals concern me less than body condition. Here is what he said in his email reply:

"It is a very solid unibody and I would not worry about any major or even minor rust issues. It is mostly sun burnt from the southern heat. The worst spot is at the right rear dogleg, I have worked on dozens of this body and it seems all of them have an issue at that site. The chrome and trim are all good enough for a driver, the last set of bumpers I had triple plated set us back about three grand. Of course it makes the final product, but still expensive. If you need more photos, let me know. Many thanks, Andy"

I asked for more pictures of the doglegs, rear quarters, floorpans, etc to check the condition of the body more and also a scan of the build sheet. I like the color combination and it looks like the options are mostly there, but I think it may still be priced a little too high. I'd also have to add roughly $700 to the price to have it shipped here, so I would have almost $10k in a car that isn't currently driveable. Thoughts, comments? Can I do better or should I pull the trigger?