window and convert top relays

jake1960 · Post by **jake1960** » Tue Sep 04, 2001 3:24 pm

Has anyone ever taken the power window and/or convertible top relays apart to clean them? My top stops every once in a while and when I tap the relays then it goes through the rest of the cycle. As for the windows, I am finding all the hidden relays and they seem to have power to at least one terminal until I tap them and then I hear clicking etc. Possibly there is oxidation or corrosion inside? I seem to break more than I fix lately when working on my 67 convert.
Hoping for some hints.
Thanks,
Jake [img]images/smiles/icon_confused.gif[/img]

Post by **Dan Szwarc** » Tue Sep 04, 2001 7:25 pm

It is possible that your relays require an "adjustment", however, it is more likely that you have fatigued terminals going to the relays.

Using a fine screwdriver (#000000 or whatever), pop out each terminal from the connector shell. Using a pair of needlenose pliers, give each terminal a slight squeeze in the direction to hold the mating terminal. This should help give better contact force to the terminal on the relay. Check the fit of the terminal to its mate without the connector. It should be snug, but not overly tight.

If this doen't help, you can open up each offending relay and inspect the internals. Carefully pry back the metal case crimps with a flat blade screwdriver to pop off the metal housing from the phenolic/bakelite base. Inspect the contact inside. If it is badly burned, lightly sand it with a point file or 600 grit sandpaper. Do not remove too much material. If you have to, bend the mounts so the contact lines up better with its mate.

Put it all back together, stake the housing lightly with a punch and a hammer to hold it together and pray you didn't break any of the fine coil wires inside.

This should buy you a few extra cycles of each relay. It won't be a permanent fix, but may put off total failure for a few months or years.

Good luck and let us know how you did.

jleonard · Post by **jleonard** » Tue Sep 11, 2001 10:58 pm

I have taken apart the window relays on my '64 convertible and cleaned them. I've only had two that I couldn't recover - luckily they were basic SPST relays easily replaced with modern 12V parts. The other six now work fine - only one of them worked before I took them apart.

You have to carefully pry the relays open, then clean everything out. Mine were all full of corrosion. I sanded the contacts and removed all of the debris. Put them back together and they worked fine.

John T · Post by **John T** » Wed Sep 12, 2001 8:39 am

Check the connectors and relay pins for signs of arcing. This will case a problem and may start melting the connector or "cook" the bakelite relay base. A little detective work can fairly easily find the root cause of the problem. The relay pins can be cleaned with fine sandpaper as mentioned or an ink eraser, which is coarser than a pencil eraser. This will remove the oxide without changing the shape of the pins. Also make sure that the relay is grounded to the car. Some are mounted to the car by the cover and these have a small tab that is soldered to the cover, from the coil ground side of the coil.

John T.

jake1960 · Post by **jake1960** » Wed Sep 12, 2001 7:15 pm

Thanks for the info. I have opened 2 so far and they look like new inside. No corrosion or oxidation. The relay in the B-pillar at the bottom is soldered like John T says and this is the one that hangs upside-down (in my opinion) It seems that it would have a better chance of getting corrosion inside. I need to get a soldering iron and see if i can break in there to clean it out. Does anyone know if this is the relay for the automatic rear windows or is it for the regular window curcuit? Or neither? I have a manual now but i have trouble figuring out where all the stuff is by looking at the schematics they show. Also does anyone know anything about the little eency weency switch inside the door by the latch? I think they called it an "open door safety switch" or something like that. I left the book out in the barn with the car. Anyway, mine don't contact anything with door latched or unlatched [img]images/smiles/icon_confused.gif[/img] The book tells how to adjust it but it is impossible to get a screwdriver in there to make the adjustment.
Any ideas?
Thanks a bunch,
Jake
67 convert

Post by **Dan Szwarc** » Wed Sep 12, 2001 10:06 pm

All the relays for the rear windows are mounted to that big metal sheet behind the rear seat. The four on each side are for that side of the car. The big one on the outside is a current sensing relay. It shuts off the relay next to it when the window current peaks (when the window tops out). There are two circuits in the knife switch in the rear door and a third switch that control the rear automatic windows. I couldn't begin to explain the process that makes it work without my manual and about an hour to type it all out. You wouldn't understand it anyway. I'm not sure I would either.

There is a fifth relay in the B-pillar (and a sixth). One of them is a window safety relay. If that fails, the windows (front and rear) on one side of the car fail at once.

jake1960 · Post by **jake1960** » Sat Sep 15, 2001 8:28 am

Thanks for the info.
It sounds like the relays in the B pillars may be bad as none of the windows work at all but there is power present at the orange wire to them. Is there a way to check the relay, (if not too complicated to explain)
Thanks again everyone, I will keep trying and keep you posted on any progreess.
Jake

Post by **Dan Szwarc** » Sat Sep 15, 2001 10:44 am

You may be able to clean them. The B-pillar relays tend to get water in them (Dunno why) and rust inside because of the steel housing.

Remove them (remove the sill plates then slide the B-pillar cover up and off to gain access) and clean 'em up. You may have to pry open the shells to clean out any rust between the armature, frame, and coil core. Lightly sand (600 grit) the contacts if they appear to be burned.

To test a relay, all you can do is apply B+ to the coil and see if it pulls in (case grounded). If it pulls in the coil is good. If the relay contacts have high resistance, cleaning might help as might an adjustment, but if that fails, you must replace it.

mbhoag · Post by **mbhoag** » Mon Jun 10, 2002 9:28 pm

Dan,

I know this is an old post, but I was searching the BBS for info on window relays, as I think I have at least 1 that is not working...

Are the relays that you are talking about here in the B pillars, is that just in Convertables, or is that sedans too? I would hate to get all the way in there for nuthin....

Also, I take it all the other window relays are in the trunk behind the rear seat?

If opening them and cleaning them out doesnt work, do you have any other suggestions?

Thanks
[img]images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img]

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