1963 430 engine troubles

[Rick Crunelle]

I need help diagnosing a problem with the 430 in my 1963 LCC.

When I start it up it revs up to around 2500-3000 rpm for about 3 seconds, then stalls.

Here is what I have done. The engine was running fine and pulled from a parts car. I pulled it partially apart to put new gaskets, and a new timing chain and gear. It was out of the car for about a month or two, then I put it into my LCC. That is when it started acting like this. I pulled the front cover off the engine to check the timing chain and it was set properly. I checked vacuum and it is only pulling around 5. I thought it might be the carb from sitting, so I rebuilt it. No luck, yesterday I installed an Edelbrock 1406 and still, the same problem...
I read a thread about someone having trouble with a baffle in the muffler coming loose and pluging the system, but I tried with the pipes disconnected and I get the same result (but louder!).

What am I missing? Could it be a huge intake leak? I pulled the vacuum lines and plugged them at the manifold... no luck. Why would it rev up so much with the throttle closed then stall out?

PLEASE HELP!!! I'm soooo close to getting her on the road!

Rick

[Lugnut]

I checked vacuum and it is only pulling around 5

What am I missing? Could it be a huge intake leak? I pulled the vacuum lines and plugged them at the manifold... no luck. Why would it rev up so much with the throttle closed then stall out?

Darn I hate problems like this!

First inclination is to say it may be a combination of Valve timing and ignition timing. So the question is: " Have you observed any miss fires during all of this?"

Also, if you removed the distributor did you accidentally stab it in 180 degrees off, or in a position of one or two teeth too retarded?

About the only thing that can result in vacuum being that low is multiple valves being open when they shouldn't be.

[action]

My guess is a timing issue between the cam/chain and the distributor base advance. Too much advance, either through the distributor or the cam/chain.

First manually crank the #1 cylinder to TDC on the compression (not exhaust) stroke. Do that with the spark plug removed. You will hear a rush of air coming out the plug hole as you near the top. Your timing mark should be at the zero mark and the dist rotor should be very close to that plug tower on the cap. When that is all set then .....

Have a timing light and a tach? Connect them and disconnect the vac advance to the distributor, then the start car.
What is the base timing?
What is the exact RPMs'? Will it hold a steady RPM for the 3 seconds?
At the time it stalls, does pumping the accelerator help?

3 seconds is not a lot of time. So you are going to need help by having someone start the car.

>>>>>>>>>>Action

[Rick Crunelle]

thanks...
I checked the timing several months ago when the problem first happened. I set it (as best I could) at 8 BTDC. I've checked to be sure I'm not 180 out, but I'll check again.
and yes, if I pump the gas as it is stalling it will rev back up.

[action]

thanks... and yes, if I pump the gas as it is stalling it will rev back up.

Based on this you may have 2 concerns.

It doesn't sound like you have a timing light. This would be an excellant time to obtain one. The set the ignition base timing to the 8 degrees when running for the 3 seconds.

I would also advise on getting a(volt/ohm) dwell meter. And setting the points with that prior to changing any ign timing. The points can be set with out running the engine. Hook up the dwell meter. Remove the dist cap and rotor. Gound the coil secondary wire. With the ignition switch set to run, crank the engine and adjust the points for the correct dwell. Reassemble everything. You have now eliminated the dwell as being an issue.

Next manually set up the distributor as outlined in my previous post. Then install the #1 spark plug and start the engine using the timing light as outlined in my previous post.

If the base timing is set correctly then the distributor is no longer an issue. I believe you will find the issue doing the avbove steps.

>>>>>>>>>>Action

[Alex D MacArthur]

I had a similar problem many years ago on a different vehicle. Before a long trip, towing a trailer, I changed the points. Everything was fine, and the car ran well. Then after a few hours, the car would NOT maintain RPM. The engine would die, but before it would coast to a stop, it would re-fire. However, as soon as RPM's increased ( to highway speed ) it would again die. I limped along at low speed until I found an open service station (past midnight in a strange city- Detroit). The mechanic would not be in until morning.

The next morning ( and light of day ) the problem became obvious. The wire lead from the points was too long and a loop was rubbing against the metal body of the distributor as RPM's increased. It was acting like a centrifugal governor once the insulation was worn off the wire, and shorted when it made contact. As the engine died and RPM's dropped back it no longer shorted and firing would be restored.

I do not envy you the search for your problem.

[Rick Crunelle]

I do have a timing light, but it was difficult to get the timing exact when the engine wouldn't idle. I have a dwell meter, and I checked the dwell a while back, but I'll check again.
This weekend I'll dig in and see what I find.
As recommended I'll check to be sure I'm not 180 out by pulling the #1 plug and listen for the compression stroke. Then I'll check the points and dwell, then the timing.
I'll report back next week to let you know what I find.

I love this forum! So much great info!

Rick

[KULTULZ]

It doesn't sound like you have a timing light. This would be an excellant time to obtain one. The set the ignition base timing to the 8 degrees when running for the 3 seconds.

The RPM has to be steady and under 600RPM to set the timing (remove mechanical advance).

If once he verifies static timing and advances it six degrees to fire, he can manually turn distributor slightly until the idle steadies. This will verify correct distributor insertion. Once the idle has stabilized (and come off fast idle) then he can set the timing. If vacuum reading is not correct then, a possible vacuum leak on the intake manifold gasket(s).

[Rick Crunelle]

Problem solved!

I checked dwell, timing, firing order, and if I was 180 out... it was all ok. So I pulled the intake thinking that the only other thing it could be was a massive intake leak. That was it!
When I bought the gaskets for the engine it was one big set from Fel-Pro. I've never had trouble with Fel-Pro quality before, but these were just a little off and were causing most of the intake runners to leak. I bought a new set (from Fel-Pro) and they were a different material and they fit perfectly. She fired right up and ran smooth. Oh life is good.
The last parts I need to get her on the road are the rear rubber brake line and t-fitting!
Thanks everyone!
Rick

[action]

Rick,

Thanks for reporting back. To often a person will fix the issue and not report back. Usually it's fixed and the rest of the forum has no idea what was the end result.

Again thanks!

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Action

[sigsterrr]

I think this post just confirmed my problem. After hours of settings and etc I noticed smoke coming out of the area below one of the runners. Then I ran it and covered the carb and blew in to it and then I saw more smoke. This is getting real fun. NOT.

[61_Conti]

As soon as I read the first post here I knew it was a vacuum leak. I had nearly the identical problem...turned out the Holley carb I was using had an extra vacuum nipple and the rubber cap was missing. I put a new cap on (with a clamp this time) and it fired up like a brand new car.