Electric Lincoln concept: The Star

[Castrosua]

...Automated pieces of equipment make for good servants, but I don't have a desire to serve under them, nor put my life entirely under their watch.

---Tony

I for one, welcome our new robot overlords!

You know that phrase JUST begged for the reply lo. I agree though. Computers will not reach intelligence especially at the current state of AI, self learning. Its so up to chance what comes out. However, there are MANY people that shouldnt drive (you can guess how I feel about some morons voting). We have industrialized the mass production of stupidity at a scale that's the envy of any industry, any efficiency expert.

California recently announced that they would not allow the sale of gas powered vehicles after 2030 or something. They were also telling people not to plug in their cars because the grid was overloaded. That will be the way of life, a significant downgrade. If they want to prevent you from being mobile, they’ll just shut the power off.

Blind leading the blind...and no matter who we vote for at least here in NY we still get, the lazy, the corrupt and the stupid, sometimes all rolled up into one!

But the one good thing about stupid people, is that their tolerance is low for discomfort. Wait until they're told they cant drive or even sit in an air conditioned car after their home ac gets lowered and all. Smart (fill in device name) just means its controlled not by the end user.

I have been following a guy on Youtube, Louis Rossman that started out doing Macbook repairs, and now is a serious Right2Repair lobbyist, and he managed to get both sides of the spectrum on board with the idea that if you can't fix it, you don't own it. Thats the issue with many electric cars. Its not the danger of the 800V but the "intellectual property" or serialized components (which many new gas cars have, such as power steering racks, that cannot be taken from one car to another, as the VIN must match, under the guise of safety. In other words you trade in your freedom to fix a car because the police are lazy and can't find chop shops. Im a former cop saying that, so you know its bad LOL)

[suburban_gorilla]

We can disagree. I prefer minimum 2 pedals, and for some cars, 3 is a must. And also, a real parking break. How can you do good donuts without a proper level or pedal?

I just dont see the point in that kind of driving. Why not self drive? Or...if I was to have a machine drive me around, Id just call the local Town Car guy. I can sit, relax, he drives and he still has a few 2011 Town Car Ls still in service.

I can do donuts just fine. My car has two pedals. My car is exciting and hair-raising to drive. I have no interest in self-drive. what is the point of bringing that up? just another load of the usual nonsense from you.

One-pedal driving refers to the ability of the driver to properly use the 'go pedal' and the regenerative braking system to manage the speed of the vehicle without needing to actually use the brakes to slow the car down, even to a complete stop. I have a brake pedal there but I don't need to use it if I don't have to (or want to), which actually means my brake pads and rotors last much much longer. how is it "better" to ride the brake pedal instead, or ride the pedal in stop/go traffic? why is it better to keep doing things the same way things have always been done? the car still brakes but I dont need to push the brake pedal!

a battery is just a different way of powering the car. it is still a car. you still drive it like a car. to conflate electric vehicles and self-driving as the same thing is complete nonsense. The facts are: EVs are cheaper to run, cheaper to maintain and cheaper to "fill up," and with basically no moving parts there no maintenance needed on the motors. The required service is much the same as conventional cars: lubing moving parts, checking brakes, tires, fluids, alignment, suspension etc... but it is still a car. that is it. stuff is still going to break, stuff will need to be fixed and it is still going to need maintenance. The only difference is the juice, everything else is "stuff and nonsense" including the malarkey about EVs geared for urban commuters.

do y'all still use a typewriter to communicate? what about a rotary phone? vinyl records? tube television? drum brakes? this is the same thing in a different context. This is probably the most significant technological advancement in the automotive world ever. cars up until now have pretty much been the same and the old tech sucks because it is old. this reticence to even consider doing things in a different way, specifically in the car world, is frankly hilarious. an EV is no less a car than a "conventional" car. rack an pinion steering? hydraulic steering? now we have drive by wire. steel body panels? now replaced by carbon fibre? it is really not that hard gents.

[suburban_gorilla]

anyway Lincoln has to go electric to stay alive and relevant as a brand. full stop. the marque is in enough trouble as it is.

Engines will still be needed to do hard work and fuel for those engines will still be needed. the fuel is going to be insanely expensive pretty soon and that is pretty much it. I imagine the car hobby will continue but like anything else, the cost of fuel is going to go way, way up.

[rick]

I think we can all agree that the often emotional electric car "pros and cons debate" is beginning to be a pretty worn out topic. I now have an electric lawn mower, leaf blower and whipper snipper. They offered an improvement for me compared to what I used before. So I bought'em. My choice. Not because the Gov't legislated that I had to.
So whether the final decision-maker (the market) decides to accept the American and Canadian government's desire for a paradigm shift to electric from internal combustion is still a question mark in my eyes. We'll have to see. Twenty years from now we'll know for certain.
Meanwhile, it's just not a slam dunk in my view that the public is going to decide to shell out the cash to buy something just because the government decided it was a good idea. It's very rare when the government decides to be the ruler the market. It happens in Russia and China but rare in the free world. But sometimes big company's make a decision to rule the market. Remember Sony coming out with Beta?? It was an improvement over VHS but the majority of the buyers refused to bite. Big company Google came out with Google Glasses (an improvement that nobody bought.) Big company Apple was positive that the Newton would revolutionize the computer world but although it worked fine - against all predictions the public just didn't agree. Remember "Satisfries" from Burger King? They were more healthy than french fries and tasted pretty good too..... but the buying public didn't agree. Coors beer went into the drinking water business with their Ricky Mountain Sparkling Water.... but the public didn't accept the idea. So, in my opinion we'll have to see what actually does happen. I know one thing for sure - Governments can always lose an election and the People will eventually decide about the move to electric cars.
A Study released this past June by the reputedly non-partisan and prestigious Pew Research Centre in Washington DC stated that Consumers will be hesitant to make the switch to electric due to concerns such as the high purchase price, limited driving range and lack of sufficient charging infrastructure.
Like I said, whatever happens - happens. I'm just not betting the farm.

[Dan Szwarc]

Cars are going electric. Tesla will be the biggest car company in 3 years. Many other will go bankrupt, including Toyota, Honda, Nissan, GM (again), Stellantis, and VW.

All of the arguments against it are tired and worn. I've been hearing them for seven years.

All, my IMHO. Remind me in 7 years.

[jtheye]

If someone doesn't like EVs it is because they don't own one. Once you do, ICE's are for weekend drive nostalgia. EV range anxiety is false. A 400 mile trip takes you almost 8 hours and driving more than that is tiring. Electric charge stations are everywhere, so the infrastructure is there. I always charge when I stop to eat and enjoy the break from driving. I live out in rural area and getting to town and back is nothing with the EV. Home charging is much cheaper than public charging. Public charging is priced to be just a few dollars less than equivalent gas pricing. That is understandable since public charging stations are there to make $. Think of driving an EV exactly like driving an ICE except when you get home you can "top off" the fuel tank at 1/10 of the price of a gas station. There is nothing wrong with owning a horse, but their expensive on upkeep. There is nothing wrong with owning an ICE, but their expensive on upkeep.

[brkdncr]

Converting to EV isn't for everyone, but it benefits everyone. Keep in mind that humans have spent decades figuring out how to deal with combustion engines, and only a few years figuring out EV. the California electrical shortage was mentioned, but don't forget that there's also been plenty of gas shortages. Further, it wasn't "don't charge your EVs at all" it was "reduce electrical consumption between 4 and 9pm". I also don't think it was fair to ask residential areas to reduce consumption. heavy electrical consumers should shut down first. maybe cancel a sports game.

I also have a rural property and i'm planning to purchase an EV in the next 2-3 years. I already added solar and battery to reduce my reliance on grid power. I think i have trips that reach into the 300 mile range 1-2x per year, and could easily rent a vehicle to handle it. local trips are definitely under 100 miles and as government forces.incentivizes EVs onto the roads, the ability to charge for 10-15 minutes and get 25% recharged or better will become easy.

As for Tesla vs others, I'm not going to bet on Tesla being the only EV maker on the market. Tesla has had some awful growing pains to get through, and have more to come (cybertruck? quality? repair delays?). The other big names have kept quiet for good reason - making a completely new vehicle technology is hard and risky. Telsa's biggest advantage has been first to market. That's over now, and instead of coming up with licensing of their tech, they now have competition from major automakers that have much better presence throughout the world.

[Lee]

I think California’s mandate is 2035, and Connecticut just joined them. And even with $7500 taxpayer subsidies, they still can’t make a profit. Here’s a thought: maybe most people just don’t want them
https://www.carscoops.com/2023/07/ford- ... ion-goals/

[TonyC]

Yesterday I read an article of a man who was trapped in his Tesla for hours on end when the main power gave out. Apparently, the doors were designed to only open and close with electric power. I can't remember how he was rescued before he baked to death; I think somebody just thought of taking out a window (yeah, expensive considering that we're talking a six-figure vehicle). But, if that is the standard, that will mean even fewer people wanting such vehicles. Personally, I prefer having some kind of manual override on hand in case the electrics pack up for whatever reason...especially where doors are concerned.

Remind me never to move to Cali or Connec.

---Tony

[Dan Szwarc]

Yesterday I read an article of a man who was trapped in his Tesla for hours on end when the main power gave out. Apparently, the doors were designed to only open and close with electric power. I can't remember how he was rescued before he baked to death; I think somebody just thought of taking out a window (yeah, expensive considering that we're talking a six-figure vehicle).

Tony, you either read a very thin article, a headline, forgot the details, or are just making stuff up.

I found one article that seems to be making the rounds about a guy in Arizona named Meggison.
He was in a Model Y. It's max $60K, not $100K.
Second, that owner did not know there was a manual release on the door to get out. There always has been. All Tesla have them.

Third, it was 20 minutes, not HOURS.
Arizona driver says he was ‘trapped’ in hot Tesla after battery died
He was also in his own garage. Sure, it was Arizona and it was 100F outside.

Arizona man was trapped in his Tesla on a 100 degree day; here's how to get out
Owners who don't know their vehicles are just drivers.
RTFM, we always say.
Read the F*cking Manual

Remind me never to move to Cali or Connec.
---Tony

I don't think we need to do that.

[Dan Szwarc]

I think California’s mandate is 2035, and Connecticut just joined them. And even with $7500 taxpayer subsidies, they still can’t make a profit. Here’s a thought: maybe most people just don’t want them
https://www.carscoops.com/2023/07/ford- ... ion-goals/

The only one's who can't make a profit are not Tesla. Tesla literally is 10 years ahead. They lost money for 10 years. Finally became profitable in 2019 after seven years of selling real EVs (roadster doesn't count).

The other problem is Tesla makes money selling better cars for lower cost than its rivals. Competition can't make money because they cut their prices to stay "competitive". That hurts them even more.

Tesla is the only company without a selling "problem". They have about 16 days inventory. All the rest have about 300 days.

[Lee]

What amazes me are the people in in CA and CT who actually elect people to take away their freedoms.

I think electric cars are a great option for some people, and they should have every right to buy one (without my tax subsidy).

I expect Ford and the others are reading the socialist tea leaves, and expecting the administration to declare a “climate emergency”, and dictating the eventual end to internal combustion. And then they can be there to rake in the money when everybody gets a big check to replace their old gas powered car. Buy EV stock now, while it’s cheap. I’m sure most members of Congress already have.

Soapbox put away for now.

[Dan Szwarc]

I’m going to lock this thread if it not specifically about the Lincoln Concept.

I don’t want to see debate about the pros and cons and hidden conspiracies of which I am a paid actor.

Talk about the Star or your post will be deleted.

[TonyC]

Tony, you either read a very thin article, a headline, forgot the details, or are just making stuff up.

You found it, Dan. That was what I saw. So I wasn't making stuff up, but I got some details wrong. Point made; bad time and place to egg that debate on. Sorry.

Back to topic, everyone; anyone see any late developments on that EV?

---Tony