Top works with quarter panel but not dash switch

[milesofsmiles]

If I use the quarter panel switch in my '67 my top goes up and down perfectly (I hate to say this and jinx myself) but it gets out of sequence when I use the dash control knob. I then have to get the seats out to jump the deck open relay and then run power directly to the flipper and then once I get it back in sequence and use the key in quarter panel it stays in sequence.
Any areas I should look first.
I have searched the forum and pulled my FM out to try to solve this.
Thanks for any help,
Mike

[Dan Szwarc]

Your symptoms make no sense. The two switches drive the same relays. At least, I THINK they do.

Pull the dash switch and figure out if it has B+ (12V) to one of the three wires connected to it. It's violet wire, female terminal.

Screen Shot 2022-03-02 at 7.26.57 PM.png (44.09 KiB) Viewed 695 times

If there is power, jumper it to any one of the other wires. It will either be up or down. Run it through the whole cycle, carefully. If it works, then the switch is your problem.

Fulls schematics are in the shop manual. My PDF scan is crystal clear. The schematics are poorly dawn, though. You have to trace the circuits to understand them.

If it's truly messing up the sequence and you have to manually fix it, then I'm guessing the resistance is slightly high in the switch and the relays are marginally engaging.

[milesofsmiles]

Dan,
I know it makes no sense. The guy I bought the car from told me that you can only operate the top with the quarter panel switch. I tried one time with the dash switch and the top got out of sequence. The top was still in the trunk and the deck lid was closing like the top was up (flapper retracted), and the only way it would move was to continue to close the deck lid. I had to pull the seats and jump the deck open relay and then directly power the flipper to extend it. Once I got deck lid up and flapper extended I could use the quarter panel switch and everything stayed in sequence. I have never tried the dash panel switch again.
I will try what you suggested and report back.
Thanks,
Mike

[RMAENV]

Mike and Dan. The key switch at the gas tank fill is wired direct to the motors and 12v, no relays. In the 66 & 67's it does not run through the Neutral Top Relay in the Box on the driver's side fender under the hood. That is why the gas tank switch works and the dash switch doesn't. Unlikely, but the dash switch might be bad also. That is easy enough to check, take out the two screws on the dash switch, pull out unplug and check with a meter. or test light moving the switch up and down.

It sounds like the Top relay in the front fender box went bad. Same thing happened to me years ago. You can use a new style Bosch relay to replace it. A buddy of mine is the ace at rewiring old Ford relays to the Bosch Style. I don't think I have a wiring diagram for the Bosch relay. I would have to take the box apart on my car.

It's years ago. I don't remember if my buddy told me the key switch is directly wired to the motors and 12v or I called John Cashman. My buddy was a mechanic, a Ford guy and owned 3 or 4 66-67 Lincoln Convertibles in his time.

[milesofsmiles]

Rob,
I will look into the relays and test them. Bubba Sanders has a really good YouTube video which reviews changing out the old Lincoln relays with Bosch style relays.

https://youtu.be/U4y3VDeT4Ew

Thank you for the help,
Mike

[Dan Szwarc]

Mike and Dan. The key switch at the gas tank fill is wired direct to the motors and 12v, no relays

This is not true. It can’t be true because the trunk switch will put the top through the entire cycle. It probably does bypass the neutral relay because it’s hard to use the switch with the car in drive. I’ll see if I can find it on the schematics.

[Dan Szwarc]

I've reviewed the schematics and confirmed that the trunk switch is in parallel with same the two wires (up and down) as the front top switch. The only difference is that power comes directly from battery side of the starter solenoid.

Mike, please describe exactly what happens when you use the top switch at the step the failing step. Start with the top completely up and try to lower it or completely down and try to raise it.

The steps are shown in your shop manual with the relevant circuits involved in the shop manual starting on page 18-19 (not 18 to 19, 18 dash 19) or page 439 if you have the PDF from the forum.

Or you can contact John Brewer. Search here for his number.

[RMAENV]

Mike and Dan,
I did a really sucky job explaining what I was trying to convey. Dan got the direct 12v source. The point I was trying to make is that the gas tank key switch doesn't run through the dash switch and the neutral top relay. It uses the relays behind the rear seat and in the trunk. Sorry I explained myself so poorly.

Mike, I don't think you need to test the relays behind the rear seat or in the trunk since the top works from the key switch. I would start by testing the dash switch and the neutral top relay in the box under the hood on the driver's fender. I will go 90% that the neutral top relay is bad. 9% that the toggle switch is bad and 1% they are both bad.

[milesofsmiles]

Thanks for all the advice. I will get out to the garage hopefully this weekend and follow your suggestions and report back.