Checking out a '69 Post

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Checking out a '69 Post

Postby Fordum » Fri Jun 25, 2021 11:47 am

Hi,
I'm very novice when it comes to cars. Most I've done was assist in flushing brake fluids or changing oil.
https://www.gatewayclassiccars.com/LVS/ ... ontinental

edit: Found the same listing on ebay haha https://www.ebay.com/itm/164922762838

This is the car in question that I'm interested in. I know I have plenty to research on but was hoping
some of you can give insights on this listing. I did look around on this forum prior for things to look out for:
https://www.thelincolnforum.net/phpbb3/ ... 4d4eab2d31

My goal is to drive the car in comfort (yes, I've heard classic cars are not meant to be daily driven, but I don't drive far or frequent enough to warrant fear). And yes I do have a backup modern car if something goes awry.
This is why I looked for a resto-modded car in particular.
I am down for learning on maintaining, replacing, and upgrading whether it's before or after I get a Lincoln.

Some starter questions is if this car looks in drivable condition with little maintenance, do its dashboard or upholsteries need major work? Are the scrapes on the car (being that it's in Nevada) a cause for concern?
If someone more knowledgeable nearby the area can check the car out? I would set aside time to travel and see for myself but think that I wouldn't be able to spot common or potential problems with the car.
Thanks in advance!
Last edited by Fordum on Fri Jun 25, 2021 3:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Checking out a '69 Post

Postby TonyC » Fri Jun 25, 2021 12:13 pm

Well, first off, their history of the car is off. In '68 they phased out the 462 in favor of the 460, and that car is fitted with, well, something. Don't know if it's a 460 or a GM engine, but that's no 462.

The story about classics not driven daily is one of many myths. On the contrary, these cars, in fact cars in general, are meant to be driven regularly. But those wheels, I would not trust that car on an interstate unless you can confirm that their load rating is high enough to carry that weight. I know that is something people never think about; with tiny new cars it's no big deal, but on massive beasts like this it is a big deal.

There's a lot of cheesy cosmetic modding done to this one. Question is, how much modding under the skin has been done?

---Tony
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Re: Checking out a '69 Post

Postby action » Fri Jun 25, 2021 1:02 pm

My guess -

I it was a beat up ride that a resto-mod was the best choice. The issue is the price. At $20 that isn't enough to fix a beater. Plus these guys are doing this for a profit. If you are not mechanical I would advise against something like this for two reasons
1) There are definately non-stock parts used. When it comes time to work on it, paid labor is going to charge to do research to find out what they are working on. It won;t show up as a seperate charge
2) If the resto-mod was done to the same quality level as the factory, the asking price would be close to double. Since that price is not that high, in my opinion corners were cut. Cutting corners means the next owner will be fixing or finishing the job.

Issues just from the pictures -
This is a repaint and color change. Look at the deck lid and the trunk. It was white before it was changed to black.
The right passenger seat may not work as the power switch is broken
The + battery cable is a temporary fix with end cut off and temporary end put in
The right side under body pinch weld has been beat up along most of the length of the vehicle. Which to me screams to the treatment this vehicle has had over the service life
The engine is a 460. Just not a 460 from pre-72. Which means it does not have the same power as a pre-72 460 and some parts for earlier and later are not the same. EXAMPLE the lower radiator hose is a universal accordian hose.

There is likely more issues.

That year was not that popular. A very good example of that year in stock form would be about the same price. However that car likely does not exist in the market place. What does exist is lesser conditions of the 'same 69 four door. Priced from nearly free to $10K or $15K. Dumping in a mid-70s 460, with aftermarket AC and fuel injection, painting it black with wheels and a cloth interior doesn't necessarily make the vehicle better. But the seller would like you to think that.

A discussion is relevant to resto-mod vehicles. Expect to pay 150% to 200% of the market value of a very good original stock vehicle for a well done resto-mod. Because in a well done resto-mod vehicle, it was .... well ...... well done. And to be well done that costs money. There are a number of shows on TV where the vehicle is "well done". Not many times do they show the price if the vehicle is sold. But when they do it isn't cheap. This car is cheap. And now there are parts of the car that still do not meet the same standard that was what the company did when it was built new. Yeah I get that the technology has changed since the company built one. But to do a quality job with newer technology the buyer is going to have to pony up to a well done price!

Two mechanical pieces above tell me the vehicle was not built to a high standard. The radiator hose and the battery cable. These are rather small items. But when you are broke down on the side of the road it likely is that little thing that failed. And also asks the question ... what are the things that I can not see or ever will see unless I tear the vehicle apart or was present during this build that will be an issue? Because the pictures only show so much. What can we not see and will never see until a repair is started?

If you are looking for a turn key well maintained stock vehicle it will look a whole lot better than this. Or well built resto-mod, expect to pay much more than this. If you want a cheap ride that looks good but may be isn't reliable and you will be spending money to get it in reliable condition, buy that one! It looks pretty. (well not to me but to some one it looks pretty)

And know that this vehicle WILL sell! And it reminds me of a quote that is associated with P T Barnum from about 100 years ago

Action
Last edited by action on Fri Jun 25, 2021 1:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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2006 Lincoln Navigator Limited 5.4l 3V
1996 Lincoln Mark VIII 2DR Coupe Diamond Anniversary 4.6l DOHC, 4R70W, 3.07
1970 Continental Mark III Triple Black 460 4v, C6, 2.80 (Used for Woodward Dream Cruise or just generally stored in Michigan)
1966 Lincoln Continental 4DR Convertible 462 4v, C6, 3.00
1966 Mercury Park Lane 4DR Breezeway 410 4v, C6, 2.80
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Re: Checking out a '69 Post

Postby LithiumCobalt » Fri Jun 25, 2021 1:11 pm

Warning: my opinion only.

That car is a basket case that is WAY overpriced. Wheel opening trim missing, vinyl top was stripped off but trim remains, holes for Continental script and letters have been filled in (who knows what else has been smeared with bondo and painted over), the pinch welds on the underside look to be in very poor condition probably from rust, the rest of the underside is rather rusty, the interior is about as poorly done as you can get short from having tears in the seats, bumpers are rusty and the front one is twisted probably from an accident, missing trunk carpeting, repaint quality is terrible or has a lot of wear on it, antenna is bent, etc, etc, etc. The aftermarket exhaust and the wheels add to the "ghetto" vibe. They have an overpriced money pit for sale asking about $15k more than it's actually worth. Nothing about this particular car screams quality or well-maintained. I would stear clear.
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Re: Checking out a '69 Post

Postby Fordum » Fri Jun 25, 2021 3:38 pm

Greatly appreciate the insightful reviews. I wasn't blown away by the black paint and red cloth interior but was mostly concerned about the fixes and upgrades done. Learning a lot here and it's a starting point for me to continue looking. Anyone else wanting to add their personal opinions, please do so! I'm sure this thread will serve well for other newcomers as well. As of now, I have decided against further interest in this car other than comparing it to others on the market.
It's unfortunate that I appreciate the '69-'72 year models the most.

In the worst case, I'd find a cheap but runnable car that's mostly stock. Ideally, I'd find a resto-modded car or a cheap but mostly ok body car that I could work on (daunting task especially for a newcomer, but I have time for the rest of my life and a passion for these models specifically).

One question that's general enough to cover multiple questions:
For a car with aftermarket replacements or "upgrades", would it be enough to just receive receipts or exact models used to replace? I understand for this price, I wouldn't want to have to replace wheels or anything else because that's just extra money out of my pocket for what should have been handled. However, I figure with a working inventory of car parts, some troubleshooting, oem and aftermarket parts can be found to replace or substitute.
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Re: Checking out a '69 Post

Postby Suicidekid63 » Fri Jun 25, 2021 3:39 pm

basket case w/ plenty of issues, both seen and hidden, I'm sure.
For 20K, you can get much much better. Keep looking and dont impulse buy on one of these.
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Re: Checking out a '69 Post

Postby LithiumCobalt » Fri Jun 25, 2021 3:44 pm

There is nothing more expensive than a cheap Lincoln. Parts are often not easy to find as almost every year has unique parts on it.
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Re: Checking out a '69 Post

Postby action » Sat Jun 26, 2021 2:02 am

Fordum wrote:One question that's general enough to cover multiple questions:
For a car with aftermarket replacements or "upgrades", would it be enough to just receive receipts or exact models used to replace? I understand for this price, I wouldn't want to have to replace wheels or anything else because that's just extra money out of my pocket for what should have been handled. However, I figure with a working inventory of car parts, some troubleshooting, oem and aftermarket parts can be found to replace or substitute.



Not many sellers are going to have receipts.
The subject vehicle is likely being sold by the vendor or on consignment. It puts space between the buyer and actual seller. But it means details and paperwork may not be available.

If the replaced part is one of stock design it does not matter. Unless you want the reciept to know if the work was done.

However lets pick on the fuel injection because we know that is not stock.
Getting the manufacturer and model would be important. Typically the receipt might have that. And may be needed for warranty if it has one.
The other thoughts are replacement parts years from now.
Is the company still in business?
If they are is replacement parts still available for that model?
Is the part generic for big lock engines or specific to the Ford 460?
BTW I believe the box that takes up the glove box is for the fuel injection. Could be wrong

With stock replacement parts, you do not have to keep track of make and model.

BTW I missed it, the instrument panel and door panels are a mess. These are very sun damaged which is likely why the cloth seat covers are there.

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2006 Lincoln Navigator Limited 5.4l 3V
1996 Lincoln Mark VIII 2DR Coupe Diamond Anniversary 4.6l DOHC, 4R70W, 3.07
1970 Continental Mark III Triple Black 460 4v, C6, 2.80 (Used for Woodward Dream Cruise or just generally stored in Michigan)
1966 Lincoln Continental 4DR Convertible 462 4v, C6, 3.00
1966 Mercury Park Lane 4DR Breezeway 410 4v, C6, 2.80
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Re: Checking out a '69 Post

Postby action » Sat Jun 26, 2021 2:21 am

Fordum wrote:In the worst case, I'd find a cheap but runnable car that's mostly stock. Ideally, I'd find a resto-modded car or a cheap but mostly ok body car that I could work on (daunting task especially for a newcomer, but I have time for the rest of my life and a passion for these models specifically).


For this statement above, I defer to NIck.

And there was a guy that was looking for a 66 or 67. I forget which year. He ended up doing kind of the same thing you are doing.
He found a ride but when we took a look at the link of the car for sale there were issues he was not aware of that we pointed out.
And he got very specific on what he wanted. A 4 door sedan. No convertible. Again a 66 or a 67.
He was only willing to part with about $12k max
after a couple of runs at different vehicles, he found one.
He estimated it was going to take him a year to get it running and restored. Rather mechanically inclined person.
He never posted back.
It hasn;t been a year.
Pretty sure he won;t get it done in that time frame.

There is a lot to learn about old cars. They can draw you in and some just never come back. Most of the time that ride is sitting out back somewhere. Because the owner just lost that loving feeling. There are 3 successful buyers of old cars

Rich guys - they buy show cars either just because they can or it is art or they have some need
Smart guys - These guys don;t have a fat wallet and can't turn a wrench. They buy the best copy possible in the most efficient way. It may never be a show car but it is working and looks decent
Guys with talent and time. they don;t buy basket cases, but can do a full restore if needed. When it is done it works well. Sometimes the question is will it ever get done.

Know in the PC world that when I type guys assume it is gender neutral

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Phoenix - Yeah, it's hot, however it's a dry heat
2006 Lincoln Navigator Limited 5.4l 3V
1996 Lincoln Mark VIII 2DR Coupe Diamond Anniversary 4.6l DOHC, 4R70W, 3.07
1970 Continental Mark III Triple Black 460 4v, C6, 2.80 (Used for Woodward Dream Cruise or just generally stored in Michigan)
1966 Lincoln Continental 4DR Convertible 462 4v, C6, 3.00
1966 Mercury Park Lane 4DR Breezeway 410 4v, C6, 2.80
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Re: Checking out a '69 Post

Postby action » Sat Jun 26, 2021 12:06 pm

THEN THERE ARE SELLERS

Billed as a 1969 Lincoln Continental Mark III with the rare option of suicide doors.
Oh - Ehm - Gee !!! The seller does not know the difference between a Mark and a Continental.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/402947226313?h ... SwpUtguVIM

Listed for cheap
A lot of labor went into what is shown
And the seller has no clue. Like if you put him/her in a paper bag, likely would die no clue!

So much for Saturday morning follies.
Oh and as a post script, guaranteed this WILL be sold and sitting in someone's car port, especially since this Mark III has the rare option of suicide doors!

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Last edited by action on Sun Jun 27, 2021 10:48 am, edited 2 times in total.
Phoenix - Yeah, it's hot, however it's a dry heat
2006 Lincoln Navigator Limited 5.4l 3V
1996 Lincoln Mark VIII 2DR Coupe Diamond Anniversary 4.6l DOHC, 4R70W, 3.07
1970 Continental Mark III Triple Black 460 4v, C6, 2.80 (Used for Woodward Dream Cruise or just generally stored in Michigan)
1966 Lincoln Continental 4DR Convertible 462 4v, C6, 3.00
1966 Mercury Park Lane 4DR Breezeway 410 4v, C6, 2.80
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Re: Checking out a '69 Post

Postby action » Sat Jun 26, 2021 12:07 pm

duplicate
Phoenix - Yeah, it's hot, however it's a dry heat
2006 Lincoln Navigator Limited 5.4l 3V
1996 Lincoln Mark VIII 2DR Coupe Diamond Anniversary 4.6l DOHC, 4R70W, 3.07
1970 Continental Mark III Triple Black 460 4v, C6, 2.80 (Used for Woodward Dream Cruise or just generally stored in Michigan)
1966 Lincoln Continental 4DR Convertible 462 4v, C6, 3.00
1966 Mercury Park Lane 4DR Breezeway 410 4v, C6, 2.80
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action
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Re: Checking out a '69 Post

Postby TonyC » Sun Jun 27, 2021 1:50 am

Orale-chingar, 'TA-LOCO, Corpus types!! That listing gives the second-most-populous state in the country a bad name!

Obviously, that poor shell of a car was the victim of clueless types that thought tricking out a Suicide Lincoln was going to be as easy as tricking out a kit Impala. Dopey ("y" on the end intended) balloon suspension, no engine or transmission (God only knows what they did with those)...and obviously no clue what they have on hand. I'm surprised they got the make right!

---Tony
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Re: Checking out a '69 Post

Postby Mike » Sun Jun 27, 2021 4:26 am

I'm not seeing $20k for that car. Needs outside work, Need a interior work, doesn't even look like it has a carpet. For that price I'd expect something that needs very minor stuff to be perfect. Not a project car.
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Re: Checking out a '69 Post

Postby frasern » Sun Jun 27, 2021 10:31 am

Everything about that "rare" Lincoln, makes me think it is a repo. The restorer obviously knew something, but the seller is clueless. And why are so many parts not with the car? Or it's just a scam.
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Re: Checking out a '69 Post

Postby mge825y » Sun Jun 27, 2021 7:17 pm

LithiumCobalt wrote:There is nothing more expensive than a cheap Lincoln. Parts are often not easy to find as almost every year has unique parts on it.


“There is nothing more expensive than a cheap Lincoln” Wiser words have never been spoken
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