Hello!

[Lincolnlovers]

Already posted on a couple threads, but thought we would come here and introduce ourselves. My girlfriend and I recently became the proud caretakers of a very nice '65 Sedan. We aren't strangers to the classic automotive world, having owned many different vehicles and motorcycles over the years, but this is our first Lincoln, and the first car we've purchased together. The Lincoln was purchased new by a Lady, Mrs Hazel McCullough, in Colorado Springs, and she put modest mileage on it until the mid 90's when she passed away. I know this because I have the original owners manual with all but the last two maintenance coupons torn out, and the date and mileage written in by the dealer! The manual is in pristine condition. This car was well taken care of, garage kept, and not really driven in bad weather conditions, and it shows. There is no rust on the floor pans, cross members, battery tray, or body, except a tiny spot peaking out under the rear window trim. The woman's son traded the car in, in '95, and a gentleman happened to be driving by, while it was being traded in, and he saw it, pulled in, and bought it on the spot. He put a little less than 10k miles on it in the 25 years he owned it. We spotted it for sale, in Montrose Colorado, in October, and after looking it over, purchased it.
The car is in excellent shape for it's age. And has numerous positives going for it, but there are a few issues. Unfortunately, it was repainted at some point in it's life, I believe in the 70's or 80's. There is what looks to be laquer crack on the passenger quarter. So either laquer paint, or primer (could be old body filler, but it really looks like laquer crack, and only a tear down and grinder will give me more info. Not ready to do that yet...) Fortunately I am a painter, so it's not as big a deal as it could be! The paint otherwise looks decent, though if you look close there is some residual color from mis-tapes on the trim and rubber. But overall, for how old it is, it looks like they did a decent job, and looking from the inside, I can't really see anything of concern, structurally. There's a few small dings and scratches on the trim, not sure if that's fixable or if I'll have to source new trim, but not really a big deal. The car runs great! We have put around 1000 miles on it since purchase and it runs strong. Just did a 200 mile drive on route 66 in Oklahoma, on Sunday, drove like a dream! It leaks oil... Quite a bit actually. I have an appointment to get that looked at. I was told that's inherent of these engines, and that if it runs good, just keep oil in it, and drive it. What do you all think? The car has factory (dealer option) a/c. It doesn't blow cold, so that's another thing the mechanic is going to look at. The interior is one of the main reasons (aside from the clean/rust free body) we purchased this car. It is super nice. All windows roll up and down, except front passenger side. The clock doesn't work. Any thoughts? The radio doesn't work. It turns on, (I hear it click) but no sound. The front seat adjust doesn't work. The motor hums when I work the adjustment toggle, but it doesn't move. Any thoughts or recommendations on this? Is it gear driven? Do the gears break? Not really sure, and I don't wish to tear the seat out until I have it assessed and the parts to fix it.
Anyway, overall, this is a great car and we feel fortunate to have found it. We are looking forward to spending a lot of time enjoying it!

[Dan Szwarc]

Welcome to the forum, the least facebook-like place on earth. We predate them by 3 years.

[Stuart M. Cohen]

Congrats on your purchase. I did the Route 66 trip with my 63. You can check out the pictures on my website.

Good luck with the car and enjoy driving it!

[defrang]

Great year. Welcome to the forum. The radio and clock are common problems. Use the search function in the upper right corner and you will find a lot of threads on what to do. From radio aurora conversions that support bluetooth to custom kick panels for speakers. The clocks can be repaired or quartz converted. Get an owners manual by donating to the forum if you don't have one already. It will be the best 20 you spent if you're open to some DIY projects.

[action]

Thanks for the history of your ride. It is always nice to get that info.

The clock is a fairly easy repair most of the time. There are a set of points inside that corrode. (from a low battery) Most of the time just file them and it will rewind and work again.
The radio may be a little more difficult.
Many times the power windows and seats are matters of dirt. Over the years enough dirt will accumulate making too much resistance for the motor to over come. If the motor is switched enough after that point it will burn the brushes. In addition to dirt is the lubricant used from 50+ year ago. Over time the grease will harden up and the motor can not over come that either. Usually because the vehicle has been unused for long periods of time.

As to the oil leak, no that is not normal for the engine to leak oil. Is it common, yes it is. Cork gaskets dry out especially when the vehicle sits unused. The rear main is a rope seal and it can dry out as well. Newer gasket material works a lot better than the materials from the 1960s.

Wish we were closer. I would swap services with you. Not sure I know how to spell paynt!

Welcome to the slab side of the world.

Action

[frasern]

Nice pictures of a great survivor car, and good to know it will be driven, as it was meant to be.
If one of the oil leeks is at the front seal, and I'm sure it is, Think about changing the timing chain. lots of reasons posted on this forum. The seal itself is easier to change than any other car, but not looking farther can be a mistake.
as for the radio, probably dried out capacitors, but check the ant. & speaker wires, it won't cost anything. See if the seat moves with one person pushing it (gently) while another operates the switch. If you can get any movement, it's likely just gummed up inside.

[Lincolnlovers]

Great year. Welcome to the forum. The radio and clock are common problems. Use the search function in the upper right corner and you will find a lot of threads on what to do. From radio aurora conversions that support bluetooth to custom kick panels for speakers. The clocks can be repaired or quartz converted. Get an owners manual by donating to the forum if you don't have one already. It will be the best 20 you spent if you're open to some DIY projects.

Thank you for the welcome, and the advice. I've been using the search button and perusing the site, all morning! As to the owners manual suggestion, is it the same one I have, or something different, like a service manual?

[Lincolnlovers]

Thanks for the history of your ride. It is always nice to get that info.

The clock is a fairly easy repair most of the time. There are a set of points inside that corrode. (from a low battery) Most of the time just file them and it will rewind and work again.
The radio may be a little more difficult.
Many times the power windows and seats are matters of dirt. Over the years enough dirt will accumulate making too much resistance for the motor to over come. If the motor is switched enough after that point it will burn the brushes. In addition to dirt is the lubricant used from 50+ year ago. Over time the grease will harden up and the motor can not over come that either. Usually because the vehicle has been unused for long periods of time.

As to the oil leak, no that is not normal for the engine to leak oil. Is it common, yes it is. Cork gaskets dry out especially when the vehicle sits unused. The rear main is a rope seal and it can dry out as well. Newer gasket material works a lot better than the materials from the 1960s.

Wish we were closer. I would swap services with you. Not sure I know how to spell paynt!

Welcome to the slab side of the world.

Action

Thank you again, for the multiple welcomes and responses to my comments and posts. I too wish I lived closer. I am not excited about mechanical work and would prefer to find a knowledgeable mechanic over trying to do it myself. Good, honest mechanics who have the knowledge and the desire to work on older, carbureted, non computerized engines are getting difficult to find. Upon a recommendation I went to a shop owned by an older mechanic, who seemed to really know his craft. I thought I finally found the guy... But he declined to work on the Lincoln, much to my chagrin. Said they were difficult to work on when they were new. Parts were expensive and difficult to get, even when they were 10 years old, and he didn't want those headaches, lol. I kinda think he was a Mopar guy anyhow. Found another guy, so we'll see what he can do.

Though I'm no mechanic, I know how to spell paint, as well as do it, and do it well, lol. So if I was still in Az, I would've totally been down to do some trading. Oh well...
One of these days soon, I'm going to get into the door and see if the window issue is the switch or a grease/lubrication issue. I know the rear passenger (both rears actually) move a little slow, and I suspect it's the old lubricant gumming up. I may take the clock out and fiddle with it as well. Don't be surprised if I hit you up with some questions in the process! Anyway, hope you're enjoying the last of the decent temperatures out there!

[Lincolnlovers]

*

[Lincolnlovers]

Nice pictures of a great survivor car, and good to know it will be driven, as it was meant to be.
If one of the oil leeks is at the front seal, and I'm sure it is, Think about changing the timing chain. lots of reasons posted on this forum. The seal itself is easier to change than any other car, but not looking farther can be a mistake.
as for the radio, probably dried out capacitors, but check the ant. & speaker wires, it won't cost anything. See if the seat moves with one person pushing it (gently) while another operates the switch. If you can get any movement, it's likely just gummed up inside.

Hello, and thank you for the response! I appreciate the advice, especially on the timing chain. I was doing some reading here and stbled upon the plastic timing gear issue... Wow! I would've never known. I definitely want to address that ASAP. Any advice where I can get the gears and chain? Anything else I should get to do that job? I may try to tackle it on my own, and I may ask the mechanic to do it, and I'll just supply the parts.

[frasern]

I'm no good with links, but any of the vendors on this forum's vendor page will have the gear set. Tony c just replaced them, and shows that on his posts. and I have seen them on E Bay. At least shipping won't be ridiculous, like it is here.
When I took my '67 apart, the plastic was completely gone, chain was riding on the aluminum inner part, and the car was still running great, no signs of trouble. I have never seen that much slack in a running engine, not much surprises me, but that did!

[Lincolnlovers]

I'm no good with links, but any of the vendors on this forum's vendor page will have the gear set. Tony c just replaced them, and shows that on his posts. and I have seen them on E Bay. At least shipping won't be ridiculous, like it is here.
When I took my '67 apart, the plastic was completely gone, chain was riding on the aluminum inner part, and the car was still running great, no signs of trouble. I have never seen that much slack in a running engine, not much surprises me, but that did!

Oh wow. Ok. Good to know, thank you!

[Mike]

It looks like a nice car. Its nice to see ones that are still mostly original looking like that and especially knowing the history.
There's a factory service manual for them. If you are like me and prefer the real thing you can find them on eBay for decent price. I also have pdf version which is handy to print out specific pages as you're doing work.
Parts manuals are also out there but usually more helpful when the car needs more work then yours.

[jtheye]

"Thank you again, for the multiple welcomes and responses to my comments and posts. I too wish I lived closer. I am not excited about mechanical work and would prefer to find a knowledgeable mechanic over trying to do it myself. Good, honest mechanics who have the knowledge and the desire to work on older, carbureted, non computerized engines are getting difficult to find. Upon a recommendation I went to a shop owned by an older mechanic, who seemed to really know his craft. I thought I finally found the guy... But he declined to work on the Lincoln, much to my chagrin. Said they were difficult to work on when they were new. Parts were expensive and difficult to get, even when they were 10 years old, and he didn't want those headaches, lol. I kinda think he was a Mopar guy anyhow. Found another guy, so we'll see what he can do." - Lincolnlovers » Tue Apr 06, 2021 8:36 am

This may be the best advise you have ever received when it comes to your Lincoln. DO NOT make the mistake that I have made! I wish I would have spent the money to take/ship my Lincoln to one of the many Lincoln "specialty" shops located in the US. Education costs, so don't pay for a mechanic to learn about your Lincoln. These are a specialty vehicle that takes a specialty mechanic. I warn you to find the nearest Classic Lincoln Continental shop and take your car there for any major repairs. Either that, or do it yourself so that the $ you spend is to educate yourself and not some mechanic not familiar with this generation of Continentals. Trust me, I have been paying for a mechanic's education for the last 4 years.

[TonyC]

Welcome aboard, both of you!

There are some things you will need to know about that particular year. I'll try to hit on as many as I can, but details could make this post read like a Tolstoy novel. I'll be as concise as possible. Being that you have a '65 which has been virtually unmolested since it left the factory, there are design flaws that you need to be aware of. Fortunately, all these flaws can be engineered out. Un-fortunately, that means putting in cash to engineer them out...but once done, they will not have to be done again for a very long time, if ever.

1. ENGINE: Three things with the engine need to be changed.
First, the auxiliary thermostats. Back then, the 430 had three thermostats: The big main one that everybody who knows cars is aware of, and two smaller ones pressed into the engine behind the water pump. The idea was to speed up the heating of the engine to operating temperature, which was a good idea but in the long run proved to be more of a headache than it was worth. Thermostats will eventually fail, and when these fail the engine will overheat. There are no replacements for these thermostats; luckily, you do not need replacements. The engine will warm itself up just fine without them, so what you need to do is remove them—carefully, mind you, as they can break apart and dump pieces into the block, and being that they're brass, you can't use a magnet to pull them out.
Second, the timing gears. Lincoln spearheaded the industry practice of employing nylon timing gears, the idea being that they would silence timing-chain chatter which was a common problem with cars up to that period. It worked very well, which was why the rest of the industry followed suit; synthetics proved to be very tough while at the same time being very lightweight. The problem, however, is that back then nobody knew that synthetic materials like nylon had limited life spans, because their commercial applications were still too new to foresee this. The nylon ring gear of the camshaft sprocket will deteriorate and break up with age, not use (although use will accelerate the break-up); and when they break up, usually around 25 to 30 years later, two things can happen: First, the timing chain could jump out of alignment, which can be catastrophic with an interference-configuration engine like the 430 MEL. The other thing, which is more common, is that the shards of nylon, which have nowhere else to go but back into the oil pan, will clog up the oil pump and its pickup screen, starving the engine of oil. No engine, no matter how tough it is, can withstand oil starvation for long. The solution is to replace the timing set, gears and chain, with all-metal components, which can be had by any parts outlet. That would be a perfectly-opportune time to take out the auxiliary thermostats I mentioned above.
Third, the oil pump. MEL and FE engines had an inherent design problem with upper-level lubrication due to their use of identical (and thus reversible) cylinder heads. A regular-volume, regular-pressure oil pump was barely adequate in dealing with this when new; with time and age, those pumps will gradually lose their pumping abilities, sending less oil into the valve train and causing friction damage if left unaddressed (even more so when factoring in the nylon deterioration I mentioned above). The solution to that is to replace the original with a high-volume, regular-pressure oil pump, which will send up more oil at the same pressure (you want to keep the pressure the same, high-pressure pumps can blow out gaskets causing more oil leaks) into the upper levels of the engine. A high-volume oil pump will increase oil distro from barely-adequate to very-adequate.

These three mods to the engine will never be noticed even by show judges, and they will guarantee many more years of reliable service. On a side note, I need to tell you something about the transmission. Although it is not known to have any inherent problems, it is a unique beast, which itself can be a problem. It is not a C-series transmission by any stretch of the imagination, and very few if any tranny mechanics are aware of it. What you need to do now is do research, starting with where you live and spiraling outward, if necessary, to find a transmission shop that is in fact aware of and experienced with this unit, which we here colloquially refer to as the "PCA" series. It's essentially an evolution of the first-generation Lincoln automatics that came to be in the mid-'50s, but modified to be smaller and lighter. I say again, not all transmission mechanics know this beast, and many will still not know what to do even if you loaned them your shop manual to give them guidance. Also, if it isn't giving trouble now, take good care of it while you're looking for an experienced mechanic; don't try racing Vin Diesel-wannabes.

2. STEERING: This is probably the worst design flaw of Lincolns of this decade; virtually every Suicide owner from '63 thru '67 has had to deal with this. The whole steering system tends to self-destruct: Pump (which is mounted on the crankshaft) will leak and groan, gearbox will leak, lines will loosen and leak, steering linkage and ball joints will wear...and it can all be attributed to one cause. Where the worn components are concerned, you will need to replace them all, which can cost; repairing or replacing the steering pump alone is very costly. But it needs to be done, especially if you value your life.
But, what is this one cause, you may ask? This: Engineers designed and fitted rubber-impregnated spacers onto the gearbox, the idea being that they would filter out any road feel that would resonate up the column to the steering wheel, which could cause driver fatigue. They were meant to do for the steering what motor mounts do for the engine and transmission. Sounded like a very good idea...but it wasn't. The designs of those spacers would cause the gearbox to twist at odd angles that it was never supposed to, causing delayed reaction to any steering commands, wearing out the linkage which results in much sloppier and even dangerous handling, and causing fluid lines to unscrew themselves just enough to cause fluid loss...which in turn would grind the internals of both the gearbox and the pump. Also, the center (or drag) link will tend to wear out badly on the driver's end, the end that attaches to the steering gearbox, because it was never designed to tolerate the oddball twisting of the gearbox due to those spacers. It doesn't help any either that it's designed not to be lubed...but replacements are. Replacements are costly, but necessary.
There are two options to solving this problem; the solution is to remove the factory spacers and replace them with solid, all-metal spacers which will keep the gearbox securely anchored to the car's subframe. The truth is, the perceived road feel is not even noticeable, and the elimination of the rubber portions will make the whole system handle and respond far, far better...and it will eliminate all the chain-reactions to the rest of the system. John Brewer, who is a vet of this Forum, came up with a design of spacers to accomplish this and sells them regularly. Mark II Enterprises followed suit with their own design, mimicking the original looks more. Either set will cure this problem, permanently.

3. SUSPENSION (LOWER BALL JOINTS): The lower ball joints used on these cars were not of the best construction, and they tend to wear over time. If you hear a high-pitched squeaking as you're driving, that is a warning sign that your lower ball joints are wearing out. The ball joints were also designed as sealed, to never be lubed, so the original grease they had will be drying out. To add to the headache, they are riveted onto the lower control arms, not bolted; the shop manual (if you don't yet have one for your car, that's the first thing you need to buy) even states that the whole lower control arm (or "A-arm," as it's sometimes referred to, although this design is not A-shaped) needs to be removed and replaced if ball joints wear. Luckily, that is not true. Replacement ball joints can be had, and the replacements are of superior construction in every way to the originals: They last much longer, and they can be lubed regularly like they should have been from the get-go. You need to chisel out the rivets to the originals (there are two per joint), and bolt in the new ones. But all this can be done without removing the lower control arm, which is a dangerous venture in itself. The only reason to remove that arm would be to replace the bushing pressed into it, where it anchors to the car's structure (I'm reluctant to say "frame," because these cars have no frames). New joints come with bolts and nuts to fasten them, but no instructions. I think the torque tolerance for replacement bolts is around 30 foot-pounds, I wouldn't dare torque tighter than that, unless somebody else here says otherwise.

4. LOWER SHIFT TUBE BUSHING: This is a very critical matter to address for your year. Your car's steering column employs a bushing in the lower shift tube to keep everything tight. Also, every professional adviser would state to use the parking brake when parking, which almost nobody does even to this day. Well, that bushing, being made of rubber, will tend to deteriorate and fall out. When it does, you may not even notice at first...until you try parking your car on a grade and it runs off on its own, because without that bushing to hold everything up, the shifter will fall out of PARK and into REVERSE. I don't think I need to tell you the consequences of that (if you're a Trekkie, look up Anton Yelchin). That means the bushing must be replaced. Now, you can mitigate the danger by regularly using your parking brake...but if the engine is left running, that won't help; the parking brake automatically releases when the shifter goes into a driving gear, including reverse. This was a thing that afflicted all Lincolns made in '64 and '65; a change in column design for '66 models eliminated that problem. There is really no alternative to replacing the bushing; but fortunately, properly-designed replacements can be had through the Usual Suspects. Do that, no matter how preserved the car appears to be. And always employ your parking brake.

There are other smaller things to be aware of in that year, but the above things are the most critical. They are the first things you'll want to address, to dramatically improve your new-old car's reliability, durability, safety, and even resale value if you sell it down the road (so to speak). And every issue I touched on can be done if you have the cash...and once done, you won't have to do them again any time soon, if ever.

---Tony