Heavy cars
Moderators: Dan Szwarc, Continental69
Heavy cars
It frequently comes up in discussion here how heavy the old Lincolns are, and sometimes in contrast to modern vehicles where people are surprised to learn that a lot of modern cars are as heavy or heavier these days (such as the thread about the quick jacks). So in that context, I thought this little article about Continental having to add another weight class to its tire ratings due to how heavy modern cars have come would be mildly interesting.
https://www.thedrive.com/news/38925/new ... ire-rating
https://www.thedrive.com/news/38925/new ... ire-rating
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Re: Heavy cars
1966 models:
82/53A 4-Door Sedan $5750
Weight: 5085, Built: 35,809
86/74A 4-Door Convertible $6383
Weight: 5480, Built: 3,180
89/65A 2-Door Coupé $5485 ($5,447 at introduction)
Weight: 4985, Built: 15,766
82 53A Executive Limousine $14,667
Weight: (not specified), Built: 159
For what it's worth, equivalent sized CARS are going to get heavier as they are converted into BEVs. But our Lincolns enjoy one benefit modern car do not have: taller sidewalls!
Low profile tires are great for handling, performance, acceleration, an spirited driving. All of those features our classic Lincolns are NOT known for.
I think my 66's 235/75-R15 balloons are rated for 1750lbs each or 7000 lbs. Since the car is about 6000 lbs with two people in it, that's a reasonable margin reasonable.
The Tesla Model S, the closest thing to a 1966 Lincoln sedan, weighs 4,883 to 4,941 lbs. The 66 only 5085 lbs. Pretty comparable.
The Tesla Model X weighs 5,534 to 5,648 lbs. but rides on tiny noodles of air with 20 to 22 inch rims. It's very similar to the convertible.
82/53A 4-Door Sedan $5750
Weight: 5085, Built: 35,809
86/74A 4-Door Convertible $6383
Weight: 5480, Built: 3,180
89/65A 2-Door Coupé $5485 ($5,447 at introduction)
Weight: 4985, Built: 15,766
82 53A Executive Limousine $14,667
Weight: (not specified), Built: 159
For what it's worth, equivalent sized CARS are going to get heavier as they are converted into BEVs. But our Lincolns enjoy one benefit modern car do not have: taller sidewalls!
Low profile tires are great for handling, performance, acceleration, an spirited driving. All of those features our classic Lincolns are NOT known for.
I think my 66's 235/75-R15 balloons are rated for 1750lbs each or 7000 lbs. Since the car is about 6000 lbs with two people in it, that's a reasonable margin reasonable.
The Tesla Model S, the closest thing to a 1966 Lincoln sedan, weighs 4,883 to 4,941 lbs. The 66 only 5085 lbs. Pretty comparable.
The Tesla Model X weighs 5,534 to 5,648 lbs. but rides on tiny noodles of air with 20 to 22 inch rims. It's very similar to the convertible.
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Dan Szwarc: 1966 Convertible
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Dan Szwarc: 1966 Convertible
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Re: Heavy cars
I think Ron Baker used to say that a new Lincoln ran about abuck a pound. Wayne
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Re: Heavy cars
Likely true fifty years ago from the early 1970s and earlier.papawayne wrote:I think Ron Baker used to say that a new Lincoln ran about abuck a pound. Wayne
For 2021 Base Corsair or MKZ MSRPs at $36000+
A well optioned Navigator is in six figure land
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Phoenix - Yeah, it's hot, however it's a dry heat
2006 Lincoln Navigator Limited 5.4l 3V
1996 Lincoln Mark VIII 2DR Coupe Diamond Anniversary 4.6l DOHC, 4R70W, 3.07
1970 Continental Mark III Triple Black 460 4v, C6, 2.80 (Used for Woodward Dream Cruise or just generally stored in Michigan)
1966 Lincoln Continental 4DR Convertible 462 4v, C6, 3.00
1966 Mercury Park Lane 4DR Breezeway 410 4v, C6, 2.80
2006 Lincoln Navigator Limited 5.4l 3V
1996 Lincoln Mark VIII 2DR Coupe Diamond Anniversary 4.6l DOHC, 4R70W, 3.07
1970 Continental Mark III Triple Black 460 4v, C6, 2.80 (Used for Woodward Dream Cruise or just generally stored in Michigan)
1966 Lincoln Continental 4DR Convertible 462 4v, C6, 3.00
1966 Mercury Park Lane 4DR Breezeway 410 4v, C6, 2.80
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Re: Heavy cars
Of course, keep in mind that those advertised weights apply only to stripped cars, those that are made with strictly standard stuff, no options whatsoever. A good 90% of all cars made will be significantly heavier than advertised. Frankenstein, for example: The last time I put him on a scale, in 2007, the scale registered 5,381 pounds empty. Things like A/C, 6-way seat adjuster, power vent windows, power locks, trailer hitch, etc. will add to that weight; and the overwhelming majority of cars that left the factory had at least some of those extra-cost options.
---Tony
---Tony
"Don't believe everything you read on the Internet, just because there is a picture with a quote next to it." (Abraham Lincoln, 1866)
"Question Authority!"
1966 Continental Sedan, affectionately known as "Frankenstein" until body restoration is done (to be renamed "General Sherman" on that event)
"Question Authority!"
1966 Continental Sedan, affectionately known as "Frankenstein" until body restoration is done (to be renamed "General Sherman" on that event)
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Re: Heavy cars
Don't forget to add another 170 lbs. or so for gas.
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Re: Heavy cars
Did you say my @$$?Stuart M. Cohen wrote: ... another 170 lbs. or so for gas.
Because it weighs a lot more than 170!
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Phoenix - Yeah, it's hot, however it's a dry heat
2006 Lincoln Navigator Limited 5.4l 3V
1996 Lincoln Mark VIII 2DR Coupe Diamond Anniversary 4.6l DOHC, 4R70W, 3.07
1970 Continental Mark III Triple Black 460 4v, C6, 2.80 (Used for Woodward Dream Cruise or just generally stored in Michigan)
1966 Lincoln Continental 4DR Convertible 462 4v, C6, 3.00
1966 Mercury Park Lane 4DR Breezeway 410 4v, C6, 2.80
2006 Lincoln Navigator Limited 5.4l 3V
1996 Lincoln Mark VIII 2DR Coupe Diamond Anniversary 4.6l DOHC, 4R70W, 3.07
1970 Continental Mark III Triple Black 460 4v, C6, 2.80 (Used for Woodward Dream Cruise or just generally stored in Michigan)
1966 Lincoln Continental 4DR Convertible 462 4v, C6, 3.00
1966 Mercury Park Lane 4DR Breezeway 410 4v, C6, 2.80
Re: Heavy cars
While I hear you on sidewalls and ride quality, let's not kid ourselves about the suspension any more than we already do about how atrociously these old beasts perform in an accident compared to a modern car. The solid rear axle does a pretty bad job of both handling uneven transients and of damping the load transfer of the same to the occupants when compared to a fully independent rear. That front strut rod that they used to create an unevenly-pivoting wide angle A arm has crazy geometry through its range of motion. You're comparing it to a design with proper control arms in front and a multilink in back, along with an adjustable air suspension that has real time adjustable damping to switch between cloud mode for cruising and tighter damping for handling either on the fly or on-demand. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy driving mine and find the infinite power assist steering with a thin steering wheel and huge open greenhouse view around the front to be a great change of pace, but softer sidewalls do not resolve the constraints of the vintage and quirks of its design.Dan Szwarc wrote: The Tesla Model X weighs 5,534 to 5,648 lbs. but rides on tiny noodles of air with 20 to 22 inch rims. It's very similar to the convertible.
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Re: Heavy cars
He's not calling you fat.action wrote:Did you say my @$$?Stuart M. Cohen wrote: ... another 170 lbs. or so for gas.
Because it weighs a lot more than 170!
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I am.
The below links are mostly dead.
Dan Szwarc: 1966 Convertible
Shop Manual or MPCs available
Signature rules.
Help the forum for 2024.
Dan Szwarc: 1966 Convertible
Shop Manual or MPCs available
Signature rules.
Help the forum for 2024.
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Re: Heavy cars
So am I
Well the rest of my family chips in their opinion as well
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Well the rest of my family chips in their opinion as well
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Phoenix - Yeah, it's hot, however it's a dry heat
2006 Lincoln Navigator Limited 5.4l 3V
1996 Lincoln Mark VIII 2DR Coupe Diamond Anniversary 4.6l DOHC, 4R70W, 3.07
1970 Continental Mark III Triple Black 460 4v, C6, 2.80 (Used for Woodward Dream Cruise or just generally stored in Michigan)
1966 Lincoln Continental 4DR Convertible 462 4v, C6, 3.00
1966 Mercury Park Lane 4DR Breezeway 410 4v, C6, 2.80
2006 Lincoln Navigator Limited 5.4l 3V
1996 Lincoln Mark VIII 2DR Coupe Diamond Anniversary 4.6l DOHC, 4R70W, 3.07
1970 Continental Mark III Triple Black 460 4v, C6, 2.80 (Used for Woodward Dream Cruise or just generally stored in Michigan)
1966 Lincoln Continental 4DR Convertible 462 4v, C6, 3.00
1966 Mercury Park Lane 4DR Breezeway 410 4v, C6, 2.80
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Re: Heavy cars
just for conversation:
how much does the entire drivetrain of a MEL equipped Lincoln weight? and would that be more or less than a battery drivetrain?
engine/rads, trans, driveshaft, rear dif, gas&tank
i'm thinking 1300+ lb
how much does the entire drivetrain of a MEL equipped Lincoln weight? and would that be more or less than a battery drivetrain?
engine/rads, trans, driveshaft, rear dif, gas&tank
i'm thinking 1300+ lb
1961 Sedan
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Re: Heavy cars
Well, the engine alone weighs a good 750 lbs. No idea how much a PCA transmission weighs, but a C-6 is about 200 lbs. Radiator, about 25 to 30 lbs. Drive shaft may weigh about 30 to 40 lbs, maybe a tad more. Rear axle will vary depending on subseries, along with fuel tanks which vary in capacity through the subseries. Besides, since all MEL-equipped Lincolns were placed in unit bodies, you will have to factor that in as well where a frame would normally be factored in. Unit-bodies have no frames...true unit-bodies, that is, which is what all MEL Lincolns were.
I have to politely disagree with Solid's assessment of evasive handling. He's right in one regard: A Suicide with no mods or upgrades does in fact have almost zero evasive maneuverability. I'll testify to that, based on the collision I was in with Frankenstein in 2006: When I realized my brakes were completely gone, I tried to steer left, spinning the wheel all the way to lock...and the car just kept going straight, right bang into the rear of a Grand Am stopped at the red light I was trying to slow down for. That was some years before alternatives to the main design flaw in Lincoln steering came available. Since engineering out that design flaw, Frankenstein has nearly the same evasive ability as a contemporary Imperial (which was about as good as could be gotten in the '60s). Two years ago, in Baton Rouge, a truck merging onto the interstate lst it and crashed, kicking up a huge smoke cloud across the highway. I steered left to dodge and went left, no resistance, no delays; those all-metal spacers for the steering gearbox demonstrated their superiority that night, contributing in my avoiding and veering around a very ugly interstate crash. An unmodified Lincoln certainly won't handle as a car should, especially in emergencies. An upgraded Lincoln, with its design flaws engineered out, will.
---Tony
I have to politely disagree with Solid's assessment of evasive handling. He's right in one regard: A Suicide with no mods or upgrades does in fact have almost zero evasive maneuverability. I'll testify to that, based on the collision I was in with Frankenstein in 2006: When I realized my brakes were completely gone, I tried to steer left, spinning the wheel all the way to lock...and the car just kept going straight, right bang into the rear of a Grand Am stopped at the red light I was trying to slow down for. That was some years before alternatives to the main design flaw in Lincoln steering came available. Since engineering out that design flaw, Frankenstein has nearly the same evasive ability as a contemporary Imperial (which was about as good as could be gotten in the '60s). Two years ago, in Baton Rouge, a truck merging onto the interstate lst it and crashed, kicking up a huge smoke cloud across the highway. I steered left to dodge and went left, no resistance, no delays; those all-metal spacers for the steering gearbox demonstrated their superiority that night, contributing in my avoiding and veering around a very ugly interstate crash. An unmodified Lincoln certainly won't handle as a car should, especially in emergencies. An upgraded Lincoln, with its design flaws engineered out, will.
---Tony
"Don't believe everything you read on the Internet, just because there is a picture with a quote next to it." (Abraham Lincoln, 1866)
"Question Authority!"
1966 Continental Sedan, affectionately known as "Frankenstein" until body restoration is done (to be renamed "General Sherman" on that event)
"Question Authority!"
1966 Continental Sedan, affectionately known as "Frankenstein" until body restoration is done (to be renamed "General Sherman" on that event)
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Re: Heavy cars
A 460 weighs about 700 pounds
A C-6 transmission weighs about 200
Rear axle another 200 pounds
Drive line 25 pounds?
Fuel weighs about 6 pounds a gallon. 25 X 6 = 150 pounds
I am good with 1300 or maybe a tad more
Action
A C-6 transmission weighs about 200
Rear axle another 200 pounds
Drive line 25 pounds?
Fuel weighs about 6 pounds a gallon. 25 X 6 = 150 pounds
I am good with 1300 or maybe a tad more
Action
Phoenix - Yeah, it's hot, however it's a dry heat
2006 Lincoln Navigator Limited 5.4l 3V
1996 Lincoln Mark VIII 2DR Coupe Diamond Anniversary 4.6l DOHC, 4R70W, 3.07
1970 Continental Mark III Triple Black 460 4v, C6, 2.80 (Used for Woodward Dream Cruise or just generally stored in Michigan)
1966 Lincoln Continental 4DR Convertible 462 4v, C6, 3.00
1966 Mercury Park Lane 4DR Breezeway 410 4v, C6, 2.80
2006 Lincoln Navigator Limited 5.4l 3V
1996 Lincoln Mark VIII 2DR Coupe Diamond Anniversary 4.6l DOHC, 4R70W, 3.07
1970 Continental Mark III Triple Black 460 4v, C6, 2.80 (Used for Woodward Dream Cruise or just generally stored in Michigan)
1966 Lincoln Continental 4DR Convertible 462 4v, C6, 3.00
1966 Mercury Park Lane 4DR Breezeway 410 4v, C6, 2.80
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Re: Heavy cars
A single locomotive can weigh 150-200 tons, but I digress.
The real weight with these cars is the batteries which, we are promised, will come down after we all buy electric S.U.V.s. (I'm skeptical about that). If anything, I think it will go up, as people seek more range.
The real weight with these cars is the batteries which, we are promised, will come down after we all buy electric S.U.V.s. (I'm skeptical about that). If anything, I think it will go up, as people seek more range.
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