Ford kills the Continental again

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Re: Ford kills the Continental again

Post by action »

Dan Szwarc wrote:
Luxury sedan sales are dead. Is that better?

Dead doesn’t mean zero. It does mean that they are no longer a significant portion of sales.

SUVs and trucks have taken over, like it or not. The numbers speak for themselves.

I actually like it. I have a loaded Navigator and made the transition from personal luxury COUPE (ala Mark series) to big SUV.

I don't have research, and my opinion the US market moved to SUVs has several factors
At one time the US CAFE standards only applied to 6000 GVWR vehicles and less. To skirt less fuel efficient vehicles car companies built SUVs (and trucks) that had greater weight ratings.
The average American is bigger. The doors on a coupe do not work for rear seat passengers. And smaller four door vehicles have small doors. It is far easier to enter and exit a SUV. And for the price a SUV hits the market.
To some extend there is better forward visibility
And a large vehicle may make a statement versus a lower riding car.

SUVs and trucks have taken over the US market and the US market only. Full sized pick up trucks and SUVs are not really found outside of North America.
And the sedan market in the US is dominated by foreign vehicle manufacturers. Luxury sedans as well. (Mercedes, Lexus, BMW and Audi)
The interesting thing about SUVs is foreign built SUVs do not sell as well against domestic SUVs. The reverse is true of sedans.

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Re: Ford kills the Continental again

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action wrote:The interesting thing about SUVs is foreign built SUVs do not sell as well against domestic SUVs.
I wouldn't necessarily say that. The Japanese brands alone (Acura, Honda, Infiniti, Lexus, Mazda, Nissan, Subaru, Toyota) sold around 22% more crossovers/SUVs in the U.S. in 2019 than all of the domestic brands (Buick, Cadillac, Chevrolet, Dodge, Ford, GMC, Lincoln, Ram, Tesla). The three top selling SUVs in the U.S. last year were the Toyota RAV4, Honda CR-V and Nissan Rogue.
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Re: Ford kills the Continental again

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ContiFan wrote:
action wrote:The interesting thing about SUVs is foreign built SUVs do not sell as well against domestic SUVs.
I wouldn't necessarily say that. The Japanese brands alone (Acura, Honda, Infiniti, Lexus, Mazda, Nissan, Subaru, Toyota) sold around 22% more crossovers/SUVs in the U.S. in 2019 than all of the domestic brands (Buick, Cadillac, Chevrolet, Dodge, Ford, GMC, Lincoln, Ram, Tesla). The three top selling SUVs in the U.S. last year were the Toyota RAV4, Honda CR-V and Nissan Rogue.
I would, but will modify for smaller ones the market is foreign sold.
Full size, luxury SUVs the domestic manufacturers out sell foreign made units

First quarter 2020 full sized SUV. Top 4 slots are all domestic and capture about 60% of the market. Add Navigator and Escalade together make 9% of that market and puts the market penetration of 70%. That is pretty close to domination in the automotive world
https://carsalesbase.com/us-car-sales-a ... large-suv/

Mid-sized is more crowded with 41 models. Domestic models only take about 405. Both Ford and Jeep are on top for first quarter 2020
https://carsalesbase.com/us-car-sales-a ... sized-suv/

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2006 Lincoln Navigator Limited 5.4l 3V
1996 Lincoln Mark VIII 2DR Coupe Diamond Anniversary 4.6l DOHC, 4R70W, 3.07
1970 Continental Mark III Triple Black 460 4v, C6, 2.80 (Used for Woodward Dream Cruise or just generally stored in Michigan)
1966 Lincoln Continental 4DR Convertible 462 4v, C6, 3.00
1966 Mercury Park Lane 4DR Breezeway 410 4v, C6, 2.80
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Re: Ford kills the Continental again

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ContiFan wrote: People have been complaining about cars looking too much alike or lacking distinction for ages and ages. That' sort of thing is not new or unique to today. If the sedan market had been stronger (as it was decades ago), the current Continental would have done just fine.
Well, I never meant to imply that it was a new or unique thing to today. You're right; copycatting has been around as long as cars have been; on the other hand, humans' collective tendency to habitually mimic each other also has been around, for even longer. I can't really distinguish a '47 Ford from a '47 Chevy right away, for instance, or for that matter nearly any car from the '40s except for Edsel's Continental. I even have a hard time distinguishing a '37 Model K from a '37 Pierce-Arrow, or a '37 Zephyr from a '37 Ford. The '50s are even worse; you may be able to tell differences between Fords and GMs; but Lincolns from other Fords, forget it, unless you've done the meticulous research on the detail differences of the front and rear clips. The Mark II was the biggest exception...well, in all fairness, the '58 Lincolns were also unique, in one way even bigger than the Mark II (although many would argue that was not necessarily a good form of unique). From the '70s onward, well, we don't have to elaborate on badge-engineering; everyone was guilty of that, and Ford was no exception where Lincolns were concerned. But the '60s was a novel decade; Lincoln came out looking like nobody else. In fact, I dare argue, in contrast to the author of one article I read, that in that decade everyone else began to look like Lincoln, not vice-versa. That Continental changed the industry, something no other car of that decade can truthfully brag about. And it's on that which my previous comment is based.

I suppose it was just a fluke in the passing of time, when there happened to be really creative designers at just the right time. There really isn't much of that being encouraged nowadays. Granted, the oddball looks that were coming from various makes in the first decade of this century didn't help to promote creativity as a good thing, but at least it was something...and I'm still seeing Azteks on the road wherever I go, ten years after that name was orphaned.
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Re: Ford kills the Continental again

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action wrote:I would, but will modify for smaller ones the market is foreign sold.
Full size, luxury SUVs the domestic manufacturers out sell foreign made units
Yes, American brands have long typically done better with "bigger" vehicles than the imports. Many imports don't even try to compete in the full-size SUV market. However, it's mostly the smaller SUVs that have been seeing the larger sales numbers.

Most imports don’t bother to compete in the full-size pickup market either. Nissan (Titan) and Toyota (Tundra) are exceptions but U.S. sales for those two models combined last year were less than 150,000. Compare that to nearly 900,000 for the Ford F-Series, over 800,000 for the Chevrolet Silverado/GMC Sierra, and over 600,000 for the Ram Pickup. Americans like large pickups.
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Re: Ford kills the Continental again

Post by Solid »

ContiFan wrote:
action wrote:The Continental really needed to do well in sales. Since it had been missing for a decade and a half.
The problem with coming back it you have to compete against other lux brands that have been consistently building for decades.
Although the Continental name had disappeared for about a decade and a half, Lincoln had still been consistently building large sedans during that time. The Town Car through 2011 and the MKS (which would've presumably been called Continental if they hadn't moved to the "MK" names) from 2009 to 2016. The Continental's downfall is mostly due to the decline of the sedan market in the U.S.

Having said all of that, I do think Lincoln (and Ford for that matter) should've kept at least ONE sedan but unfortunately, they've chosen not to.
Badge engineered cars do not count as cars being built by "Lincoln".
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Re: Ford kills the Continental again

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Solid wrote:Badge engineered cars do not count as cars being built by "Lincoln".
Well, then, for you, Lincoln stopped producing cars in 1969. they have been on common platforms since 1968 with the Mark III and 1970 with the Continental.

The unibody Lincoln was the last in 1969.
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Re: Ford kills the Continental again

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Customer base has dried up, its about sales and revenue and a few bad decisions along the way contributed to the demise.
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Re: Ford kills the Continental again

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Dan Szwarc wrote:
Solid wrote:Badge engineered cars do not count as cars being built by "Lincoln".
Well, then, for you, Lincoln stopped producing cars in 1969. they have been on common platforms since 1968 with the Mark III and 1970 with the Continental.

The unibody Lincoln was the last in 1969.
I will freely admit two things:
1. I did not know the current Continental was a shared platform.
2. The styling went downhill after 1963 anyway! :twisted:
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Re: Ford kills the Continental again

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Solid wrote:
I will freely admit two things:
1. I did not know the current Continental was a shared platform.
2. The styling went downhill after 1963 anyway! :twisted:
As pointed out above nearly all vehicles have shared platforms

Taking a detour -

Interestingly enough the 1960 Falcon platform (a semi-unibody vehicle) was a pioneer of shared platforms. Shared by a number of models including:
FORD
Fairlane, Mustang, Tornio, Maverick, Granada
Mercury
Comet, Cougar, Marquis, Monarch
Lincoln Versailles
Not all years applied to above models

In 1978 Ford came out with the Fox platform and a lot of models were based on that
Fairmont/Zephyr, Mustang/Capri, Second gen Granada/Monarch, LTD/Marquis (the intermediate one), Thunderbird/Cougar
Seventh Gen Continental and Mark VII

To make a platform serving one model is not cost efficient. The market place demands a lower price and the competition had moved in that direction far earlier. Today many platforms are shared. And they do not necessarily look like re-badged models like in years past.

The 1969 Mark III was a very good example of a shared platform (with Thunderbird) that looking nothing like the other model. The Mark III was built very cheap and sold extremely well. One of those factors was it looking nothing like a T-Bird.

The current Continental (10th Gen) is built on the CD4 platform. That platform is shared with the following models in the US -
Ford - Fusion, Edge, Taurus and Lincoln MKZ & Nautilus
It is also shared with models in Europe and Asia

>>>>>>>Action
Phoenix - Yeah, it's hot, however it's a dry heat
2006 Lincoln Navigator Limited 5.4l 3V
1996 Lincoln Mark VIII 2DR Coupe Diamond Anniversary 4.6l DOHC, 4R70W, 3.07
1970 Continental Mark III Triple Black 460 4v, C6, 2.80 (Used for Woodward Dream Cruise or just generally stored in Michigan)
1966 Lincoln Continental 4DR Convertible 462 4v, C6, 3.00
1966 Mercury Park Lane 4DR Breezeway 410 4v, C6, 2.80
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