Buying dream car, 1967 continental sedan, what should I know

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Re: Buying dream car, 1967 continental sedan, what should I

Postby action » Sun Apr 25, 2021 11:02 pm

You might find wipers at AutoZone or O'Reillys. Maybe Walmart. In the past I have bought a blade and then only used the refill.

As to carburetor choice, I have no preference as long as it works in all modes.
And the linkage to transmission and accelerator work.

The issue I have is when things get change and they don't work. Or don't work completely. They did when the vehicle was built!
This is mostly because the installer either doesn't understand the OE system. (And isn't willing to have an understanding) Or doesn't understand the changes they are about to make. Or do not execute the change fully.
I am a little jaded from this because of my experiences in the 1970s. The "street" opinion for engines of the era was to just remove the emission things that had been installed. The problem with that thought process is those "bolt on" emission items also came with compression and cam changes. Taking off the emission stuff was a half @$$ed thing to do. And it created drivability problems that would only be fixed with re-installing those items or getting a different engine.

The hobby ain't cheap. Neither is car ownership in general.
A modified vehicle that was well done isn't cheap either.
Wanna make changes, engineer, design and well execute the change.

AS to the Carter AFB. There are a lot of kits and parts available for it. It is a common piece. I forget because it has been some time, there is some uniqueness for the 66/67 Lincoln application. But maybe it doesn't amount to much. It is my understanding that Weber Carburetor is currently making the AFB under the name of Edelbrock.

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Re: Buying dream car, 1967 continental sedan, what should I

Postby TonyC » Mon Apr 26, 2021 1:37 am

When you do the dual-tub M/C conversion (which I do recommend, it is an upgrade, not merely a conversion), stick with the M/Cs that were designed for '67. You can get them from any parts store still. Another thing you will need to do with that is likely replace the inline control valves; I'm fairly sure the ones in the car now are toasted along with the M/C. You can upgrade either with the three separate valves designed for '67 (which would involve finding and cannibalizing an organ donor of that year), or go with a single, all-inclusive combination valve which can be had from online sources. I opted for the former, since I did not know about combination valves until after I did it. Pads (for the front brakes) and shoes (for the rear brakes) can also be had through parts stores, even though they may have to order them; but it doesn't take long for orders to come in.

Something else, for the engine: You'll want to address the timing concern. I don't know how much internal work the PO or a PO before him may have done, but it's very possible that engine still may have the original nylon-aluminum cam sprocket. If so, you're flirting with disaster by not changing it out now. Nylon was a great quieting approach when it was new, but it wears out with age; and use can cause the nylon ring to start shedding bits, causing either a potentially catastrophic slip in the camshaft or wrecking the oil pump by clogging it up and starving the engine of oil. On a side note, you'll also want to get a high-volume oil pump; the FE and MEL engines had a bit of an issue with upper-lubrication due to their use of reversible cylinder heads. A high-volume oil pump will reduce the potential of friction damage to the valve train.

Where steering is concerned, get a set of new gearbox spacers, either from John Brewer or Mark II Enterprises, to secure the steering. You'll also likely have to replace some severely-worn steering links and the lower ball joints, which will be expensive but at least it will be a one-time expense, especially if you add the all-metal spacers from either of those two cited sources. The car will respond a whole lot better, too; it will still turn as wide as a Kenworth, but there won't be a delayed reaction if you have to make a sudden evasive maneuver. And, there won't be any concern of wear on the steering components, which the original spacers caused.

I saw that the car's A/C system is the automatic version. I have heard of the ATC brain having problems in the initial year, causing the engineers to make internal changes. Be prepared for that. If the system isn't working now, you will likely have to replace every component in the engine bay. Thankfully, every A/C component in the engine bay can be had new, even the evaporator cores which I very recently learned (thank you, Action!!). The lines, however, would have to be reproduced by a shop that specializes in that sort of thing, and you'll need to provide your originals for them to use as templates. One thing about the lines: In the high-pressure side, near the sight glass, you will find a brass fitting in between the line segments. Inside that brass fitting will be a metering valve. Discard the valve. A mechanic who taught me all I know about general-automotive work told me long ago that valve was extraneous and the cause of more problems than it was worth. I think it was intended to keep the high pressure high, kind of how the mini-thermostats in the 430s were supposed to speed up warming and keep the operating temp of the engine constant. They proved to not be that much of an asset and actually more of a liability than they were worth. Those metering valves in the A/C lines invariably tend to seize up, blocking freon flow and possibly causing A/C failure by causing a leak in the system. The A/C will operate just as normally without it, and also without the worry of it blocking the flow. It was a Ford thing in the '60s, which they got rid of with overhaul of the A/C designs in the '70s.

I know there are other things I need to tell you, just can't think of all of them now... Ask me anything you think I might know about. Since yours is a sedan, I should know just about everything.

---Tony
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Re: Buying dream car, 1967 continental sedan, what should I

Postby UglyViking » Mon Apr 26, 2021 7:53 am

PO told me the engine had been rebuilt just didn't have papers (and didn't do the rebuild himself, it was the owner before him). At this point I'm guessing that the cam has been replaced since the car is showing 17k miles and there is about no chance it hasn't rolled over. I'm sort of rolling the dice on the nylon gear only since I think it has been replaced or would be dead and I don't want to take the engine apart once now, and then again this winter. If you know of an easy way to check please let me know and I'll do that, otherwise I'm just hoping for the best.

I'm not familiar with this all-in-one combination valve. I sort of assumed that the M/C connected the front and rear brakes respectively. Outside of pads/shoes I've never swapped any brakes out for custom and never had to do much beyond bleeding brakes on a harley.

A/C I'm almost sure is shot. The controls don't click on very well so I'm thinking it's gonna be rebuild time at some point. It's good to know that the A/C has easily swapped parts, I sort of figured if it didn't run I may never get around to fixing it and live without it or swap to one of those restomod kits, only since I assumed parts would be impossible to find.

I'll be looking into the steering in the not too distant future here.
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Re: Buying dream car, 1967 continental sedan, what should I

Postby TonyC » Mon Apr 26, 2021 3:48 pm

Well, somebody mentioned very recently an idea of using a borescope to probe in there, but on a 462 I'm not sure if it could be done without at least dropping the oil pan and going up through the bottom of the engine. By that route, a borescope would easily be able to see what kind of cam gear is in place; a magnet would also confirm whether the gear is steel or the nylon-aluminum type. Dropping the pan is a bit of work; but since you'd have to do that anyway to replace the oil pump, you can do that exam then, as the labor is free at that time.

Where brakes are concerned, I'll share an experience I had with my brake upgrade...well, a gaffe, actually. When I converted to a dual-tub M/C, I was only aware of two valves in the '67 setup, both of which were connected pretty close together, and I figured all was good. It wasn't. For several years all the braking power was at the front, although the rears were still fluid-tight and the shoes still had meat on them. But I still got no power at all to the rears. About 2011 or '12, after studying the '67 shop manual, I discovered that there was a third valve in the system that I didn't account for. You will find on your car, bolted to the rear of the engine cross member on the driver's side, a junction block which splits the fluid flow to both front brakes. In '67, that junction block was redesigned to also incorporate a metering valve, to control the amount of pressure to the fronts and allow the rears to share the braking load. I found one on an organ donor, swapped it in (had to do a little bit of bending to the lines so they would go in), and that cured all my braking problems. I discovered that valve is critical for proper brake operation, not only to equalize the load on all fours, but also to prevent front overpressure from blowing out a line in the fronts and voiding all braking, which happened twice to me in 2006 within two weeks of one another. So that's why I say there are three valves in the split system that must be present: Proportioning valve for the rears, metering valve for the fronts, and the differential valve that is supposed to trigger a warning light (which '66 does not have, but it did have different, bulkier designs of the proportioning and metering valves close to the M/C). My understanding is that the all-inclusive combination valves serve all three purposes in one unit. Since I opted for the three separate OE valves of '67, I don't have experience with the combos. But there are others, Dan Szwarc being one, who do know more about those valves than I do.

---Tony
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Re: Buying dream car, 1967 continental sedan, what should I

Postby Mike » Mon Apr 26, 2021 5:40 pm

If the engine has really been rebuilt chances are good it doesn't have the nylon gear. Really they aren't that bad until the timing chain gets worn out and starts breaking the nylon off the teeth so you can start by checking for slack.
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Re: Buying dream car, 1967 continental sedan, what should I

Postby TonyC » Tue Apr 27, 2021 1:53 pm

Actually, that is not the main concern with the OE nylon gears, although that sort of scenario is possible. The main concern is age, not use; nylon, like all synthetic materials, has a limited life span, after which its molecular integrity will deteriorate and the item breaks apart. Use only accelerates that break-up, but it's age that does the real damage. It was used because it was very effective in silencing engine chatter, and synthetics were the big thing back at that time. But, at that time, nobody knew about the time limit that synthetics had, not until a few decades later.

An all-metal replacement set can also wear, cause chain stretch, and thus engine problems; I have very recent proof of that. Where those are concerned, issues during use (like inadequate oil supply due to underfilling or unaddressed leaks) can cause wear and failures. Quality of construction can also play a major contributor; if, for example, a brand-new chain feels like it has too much slack on it when freshly installed, that should be a sign of things to come. The chain should be rather taut on the gears when the set is installed correctly, with very little slack to it. On interference-configuration engines like MELs, that sort of thing is critical.

---Tony
"Don't believe everything you read on the Internet, just because there is a picture with a quote next to it." (Abraham Lincoln, 1866)
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Re: Buying dream car, 1967 continental sedan, what should I

Postby Mike » Tue Apr 27, 2021 3:12 pm

If it's truly been rebuilt it shouldn't be an issue because the timing set should have been replaced at time of rebuild and replacement sets with nylon on the gears aren't very common.

Use and wear is a big factor in it. A chain and gears that don't fit snugly together increase wear on the teeth even more and can damage the nylon. Unless the nylon has been damaged from excessive wear it can last several decades without breaking down and coming apart
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Re: Buying dream car, 1967 continental sedan, what should I

Postby UglyViking » Wed Apr 28, 2021 10:12 am

I appreciate the info on the 462 and it's nylon tooth timing gear, but it's going to be a minute until I replace it. The engine isn't running great right now and while I suspect that may be mostly due to fuel, carb and air I plan to top-to-bottom rebuild it likely this winter. At this point, I suspect that the engine did indeed have a refresh, and while I don't know for sure if the nylon tooth gear has been replaced I think I'm ok with the risk for the summer. Come winter I'll be able to take the engine out of the car and rebuild the engine/trans, I may have some follow up questions on the oil pump but here is the kit I plan to rebuild with (https://egge.com/product/kits.php?actio ... ne=462+CID).

I know I'm risking engine destruction, I may drop the oil pan and take a quick peek, but I'm unsure how easy that is with the crossmember there. If I can do it easily then I will once I get back and do an oil change. My real concern here is that if I find it's got a nylon tooth gear then I pretty much have to replace it, which means moving up the timetable by quite a bit.

As for the brakes. I understand the basics of what you described Tony, however you seemed to point to an all-inclusive combination valve. Can you point me to this and any documentation on how it's installed? I get the general gist of how this dual-tub works, and I understand how to replace pads/shoes and have done them many times. However I've never done any "upgrades" so this is new territory and I'd like to have confidence in the brakes and know they were done correctly.
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Re: Buying dream car, 1967 continental sedan, what should I

Postby frasern » Wed Apr 28, 2021 12:44 pm

If the engine was rebuilt within the last ten years, it's unlikely the chain has 50 years of use, even if it is nylon. The only time I have seen a nylon chain on a rebuilt engine, is if it was a "Ford authorized rebuilder". They have to use Ford authorized parts, but nobody else does. I expect you would have a very hard time trying to even find one of those things anymore!
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Re: Buying dream car, 1967 continental sedan, what should I

Postby frasern » Wed Apr 28, 2021 12:57 pm

because of the deep skirt design, it is easier to remove the pan than in any newer design, but I still wouldn't bother. Some of the vendors on this site, have kits to upgrade to a dual master cylinder, which should include everything, as well as instructions.
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Re: Buying dream car, 1967 continental sedan, what should I

Postby UglyViking » Thu Apr 29, 2021 9:45 pm

frasern, Looks like this kit would be the complete kit? (https://www.lincolnlandinc.com/browsePr ... /sku~22559)

It looks like I could "build my own" with this proportioning valve (https://www.summitracing.com/parts/clp-pv-2) for about $50 plus a 67 dual tub MC like this (https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.ph ... &jsn=10937) for about $60. Obviously plus shipping and I need to fab the mount for the proportioning valve. Am I missing something as it seems like DIY is less than half the cost of the lincoln land kit?
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Re: Buying dream car, 1967 continental sedan, what should I

Postby action » Thu Apr 29, 2021 10:26 pm

Summit will also have adjustable valves. You can make adjustments to how much pressure or braking between the front and rear.
It is especially good for modified systems. The factor dialed in the bias between front and rear when the car was designed.

You are designing a system with a MC that wasn't made for the car. Sure it was made for an almost identical ride. But having the ability to fine tune the braking can be a nice mod. Especially if you think you might do suspension mods now or in the future.

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1966 Lincoln Continental 4DR Convertible 462 4v, C6, 3.00
1966 Mercury Park Lane 4DR Breezeway 410 4v, C6, 2.80
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Re: Buying dream car, 1967 continental sedan, what should I

Postby UglyViking » Thu Apr 29, 2021 10:36 pm

Action, that makes sense. The only real suspension mods I see myself making, outside of fresh springs/leafs and shocks, are lowering blocks, and I don't see that affecting the breaking bias much. If I decide to go crazy and do a full disc swap or airbags then I'm going to be replacing everything anyway and I'm not going to cry about the lost $50, especially if I can give it to another slab owner to take advantage of. That said, at least as it stands now I don't see myself doing airbags or dual disc brakes, seems a lot more hassle and cost than it's worth to me personally. The 462 has a surprising amount of pep but I'm also decently impressed by the brakes.

That said, my assumption on the above was just that the lincoln land kit was a higher cost because of the convenience factor. If that is correct, and the LL kit basically just includes pre-bent brake lines, then I'd ask how hard is that really to do? I don't see myself spending $200 on a bench tool as mentioned in this thread but curious how deep I'm gonna get into that. This may be the first classic car I redo, or it may be the only, life will dictate that. Open to feedback here, although it's not a huge issue as I won't get around to it for a few weeks I'd like to start planning now.
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Re: Buying dream car, 1967 continental sedan, what should I

Postby frasern » Thu Apr 29, 2021 10:48 pm

I'm not surprised LL is more, but wouldn't have thought that much more. I looked at a dual kit for my 62 when Bakers was still around, and the price was not very much more, but that's not discs.
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