What to look for in a "new" car.

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Capek13
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What to look for in a "new" car.

Post by Capek13 »

I'm not sure what sub would be the best for this, so excuse me if this isnt the best location for this post.

So I am going to be taking a trip to potentially purchase my third lincoln project. The car is a 63 sedan and appears to be in decent shape. My other two projects didn't work out so well and I was hoping this one I will get a good deal on. My question is, what are some basic things to look for when I'm checking this car out. I know of some real common issues (I.e. passenger side exhaust manifold leaking). Is there anything else I should make sure to check out that could be indicative of a major issue.
- Jason
1963 sedan. Looks pretty and drives great. It's been a long time comin'.
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Re: What to look for in a "new" car.

Post by autostick »

Capek13 wrote:My question is, what are some basic things to look for when I'm checking this car out. I know of some real common issues (I.e. passenger side exhaust manifold leaking). Is there anything else I should make sure to check out that could be indicative of a major issue.
Do you plan on fixing it for show or just for fun? Do you have a great set of tools? A heated garage with a two post lift or just jackstands on a gravel driveway? Above average mechanical skills? Like to paint or work with bondo? Some of this background will color the answers you get. But not knowing this I am pleased to provide this perspective of a happy owner of a 1963 Lincoln Continental sedan.

Lets start with the front bumper and meet at the tail.
  • Bumper straight and chrome not excessively pitted. Same for grillework.
  • Crossmember immediately under the bumper where the four strut rod bolts are visible should be rock solid. Unfortunately this steel U-channel collects water and will rust so poke it with an awl or stick a magnet on it to judge rust.
  • While under there inspect rubber bushings, these are rotted if original and figure $500 to replace everything in the front end.
  • Battery box missing or repaired? Look under the battery this is where the acid could cause extensive rust.
  • Original three port fuel pump? If not, lots of stalling.
  • Original four barrel carb with water choke?
  • Was the nylon timing gear replaced? No way to tell by looking, ask for the service records.
  • Lots of oil on the belly could mean the front oil seal, same procedure as the timing chain to fix it.
  • Assume you will test drive the beast and feel any tendency to follow road grooves. If severe have someone turn the wheel while you watch the steering box, any movement means the rubber donuts are gone. This could also mean it needs a new center link.
  • Assume you know what to check on the engine; ticking sounds are typical of a exhaust manifold leak on either side.
  • Check fluids, oil not milky, antifreeze looks clean, tranny fluid is red and does not smell burnt, brake fluid transparent brown not opaque black.
  • Single cylinder master or dual upgrade? Figure $300 to do it right.
  • Check for disconnected vacuum tubing as this is frustration city if you need to reroute original tubes.
  • What fluid is that pooling on the engine near the firewall, atop of the valley pan? green antifreeze might be okay, oil gas or tranny fluid would be a concern. Dry and clean is simply amazing.
  • Put a magnet on the doglegs and check for bondo.
  • Lift the front carpets and check the floor, you should not see the street.
  • Sun visor mounts are cast potmetal and a weak point, inspect casting for telltale cracks and proper operation up/down left/right.
  • Roadtest and check all mechanicals. How much play in the steering? AC working? Even braking? No ping?
  • Smooth immediate shifting?
  • Shut down the engine and the vacuum doorlocks should continue to open and close, if not you will be troubleshooting vacuum tubing.
  • HVAC working? Again this is a complex vacuum-electrical system.
  • Windows and seat move as directed; if not you have a disassembly and grease job, easy but several hours.
  • Look at door bottoms check for rust and holes.
  • Upholstery in good shape? Rear ashtray lighters working? Rear deck speaker okay?
  • Peak moulding is chrome stainless, in good shape? check for pry marks if removal was attempted.
  • Lift trunk liner and look for rust. Lincoln glued asphalt liner on top of metal, so you might have to peek under that.
  • Original spare, bumper jack? These items are decorative but nice to have.
  • Pot metal chrome at far corners of trunk lid: typical to see extensive pitting, excellent smooth chrome shows it was replaced or very well maintained.
  • Rear end chrome condition, straight body lines.
  • Get service records or at least a believable oral history.
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Re: What to look for in a "new" car.

Post by LithiumCobalt »

- Check gaps between body panels. Any misalignments or inconsistencies could indicate shoddy repairs
- Look VERY carefully for rust. These cars can appear otherwise solid, but be a serious rusted out mess. Get down on the ground and crawl around thoroughly inspecting rockers, floor pans, door jambs, doglegs, areas behind the wheels, etc. Check the trunk lid carefully, as well. If it's got serious rust, finding a replacement is like finding the holy grail and, therefore, are extremely expensive.
- As you are probably already aware, these cars are expensive to restore. I would not buy a sedan unless it's already in nice shape to begin with.
- Have a look at the exhaust system. If it's rusty, crusty and loud, plan on replacement. A correct system is around $700-800.
- Look at both exhaust manifolds, not just one side or the other. If they are leaking, they're probably cracked.
- Look for missing trim pieces in and out. Every little piece will cost you.
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Re: What to look for in a "new" car.

Post by 2sasilverbullet »

Amazing info - recommend this become a "sticky" somewhere!
No Lincoln currently...
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Re: What to look for in a "new" car.

Post by Capek13 »

This has been great! Thank you so much for the information. My goal is to just get a decent driver that I can enjoy. I'm not looking for a show car.

Couple of quick follows ups:

1. When looking for rust, what is consdered within "acceptable" ranges? Floor pans ok? Trunk? etc.
2. What exactly are "dog legs"? I assume you are referring to the rear door hinges, am I correct?
3. What missing trim pieces are deemed to be ultra rare and thus, very expensive to find or replace?
4. Are there any mechanical problems I may encounter that really aren't that big of a deal?

Thanks again and I echo the sticky recommendation.

Cheers!
- Jason
1963 sedan. Looks pretty and drives great. It's been a long time comin'.
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Re: What to look for in a "new" car.

Post by LithiumCobalt »

Any kind of rust on these cars is cause for concern. I'm not talking about surface corrosion on the undercarriage or things like that, but if you see any rust through on body panels, holes in floor boards, etc, that is reason to look very close. These cars are unibodies, which makes repairs challenging and expensive. A significant amount of rust can actually compromise the integrity of the car. A lot of cars have had previous body work done to them so it is not quite as evident that they may have been driven on salty roads until you start looking more closely. That's why I always advise to look at a potential purchase in person or have a trusted friend or forum member go over it carefully if you can't personally. Lift up carpets, inspect the underside, etc. Any amount of rust that needs repair is going to cost you dough if done correctly. You're better off buying a car with a dry body that may need a little more work than buying a rusty example. The rule here that I have seen repeated over and over again is "buy the best car you can afford".

Doglegs are the section of the body between the rear door and the rear wheel well. It is a common rust out spot because water gets trapped in this area. Similarly, the area behind the front wheel wells in front of the front doors are prone to the same type of damage. Dirt and debris gets caught in the crevices and traps water, which causes rust. Salty roads compound the problem. There are a lot of hidden channels within the structure of the car that can hold moisture.

Just about all of the trim is expensive to replace unless you get lucky with a parts car. For instance, if you are interested in a 66-67 model, armrests for the driver side of the car are almos timpossible to find in good condition. There are reproductions available, but you'll pay $200 a pop for them.

As far as mechanical issues, it depends on what your comfort level with working on cars is. While a seized motor is going to be a headache even for the experienced, maintenance items and replacing things due to age are somewhat manageable for someone with average skills as long as you have the fatory manuals and help from the forum. It's really up to each person.

You can always run potentials through the forum here and people can scrutinize them for you and give input on where the price should be, etc.
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Re: What to look for in a "new" car.

Post by Dan Szwarc »

Almost all 60s Lincolns need new steering gear mounts and center links. Learn how to inspect them (search this forum).
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Re: What to look for in a "new" car.

Post by SDContinental »

Everything I wanted to say, has been said already! Great job guys!

Also look for dry rot on the headliner, they will start to peel away slowly over time at the threads. When I got my 61, 7 years ago, the headliner was perfect, now it's peeling away in different sections.

It might not be a big deal, but it's just another annoying repair job when other fixes are far more important such as rust repair, exhaust manifold leaks, fuel pump rebuilding, stuff like that. :grin:
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Re: What to look for in a "new" car.

Post by autostick »

Capek13 wrote:1. When looking for rust, what is considered within "acceptable" ranges? Floor pans ok? Trunk? etc.
Cheers!
I was fortunate to acquire my 1963 that was garage kept and extensively rust-proofed. The owner was a pathological neat freak and painted the entire car with clear epoxy, making it look like shit. However, gallons of paint remover revealed a pristine body, and the epoxy paint protected the chrome that retained a like-new shine. So like Forrest Gump eating chocolate, you never know what's inside until you bite.
Rust-through of the floors is a deal breaker as it is a unibody. One exception may be under the left foot of the passenger, as this is where a clogged air conditioner will deposit condensation, rapidly leading to rust-through from a constantly wet carpet. Figure $200 for welding a new steel plate in that spot. A rusted trunk deck is impossible to replace. Some rust through at door bottoms is acceptable and repairable. Rust anywhere the suspension connects to the body must be inspected carefully.
Capek13 wrote:2. What exactly are "dog legs"? I assume you are referring to the rear door hinges, am I correct?
Cheers!
Yes as noted above, the lowermost points below the door hinges. Or if you please, the area indicated by the green line in this illustration: Image
Capek13 wrote:3. What missing trim pieces are deemed to be ultra rare and thus, very expensive to find or replace?
Cheers!
You can find nearly every metal part on FleaBay if you are patient. Replacing it now will cost a fortune. If you can do this over five or ten years, not expensive and not impossible to low bid what you need. All the chrome stuff can be found, but if you like shiny you will pay for rechrome services.
The ultra rare parts on this car are the soft stuff. Door weatherstripping is ultra rare as there is nobody making the whole part for the aftermarket. A cracked dash must be repaired. The OEM metallic leather seats are super pricey as the only metallic leather hides today are used for top-end ladies handbags... have you priced them lately?
Capek13 wrote:4. Are there any mechanical problems I may encounter that really aren't that big of a deal?
Cheers!
No mechanical problem is a big deal if you live in that heated garage with two post lift and 10HP compressor I mentioned above. But it is assumed you mean cheap fixes:
  • Vapor lock: usually a short fuel pump pushrod, $20 from usual suspects.
  • Fuel delivery issues: rebuilt that 3 port pump, see "Fuel Draining Back NO" sticky http://www.thelincolnforum.net/phpbb3/v ... =1&t=26137
  • Hard starting: Pertronix three ignition $80.
  • NAPA parts: Still stuff available from autoparts stores, like high volume oil pump, wires, brake shoes. Don't have those aluminum brake drums resurfaced because when you hit the outer limit there are no replacements.
  • Most vacuum leaks: tubing is cheap, so what is your time worth?
  • This list can go on forever so just use the search on this forum to check out the easy and the queasy on mechanical issues.
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Re: What to look for in a "new" car.

Post by Capek13 »

This has been some great info! One more question:

I want to tow this home by getting a uhaul trailer using my 2004 f-150. The website says it won't work and I'm wondering if that is correct and has anyone had any experience doing this.

Thanks again.
- Jason
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Re: What to look for in a "new" car.

Post by wasagachris »

Capek13 wrote:This has been some great info! One more question:

I want to tow this home by getting a uhaul trailer using my 2004 f-150. The website says it won't work and I'm wondering if that is correct and has anyone had any experience doing this.

Thanks again.
If the website says it won't work then no U-haul dealer won't rent you the trailer. I had the same problem bringing my 54 Cadillac home from Baltimore. I had to borrow a dealer plate and have a friend drive it home. You can always lie about what vehicle you will be putting on the U-haul trailer but if anything happens they will hold you liable for any damages to their unit or any damages resulting from a collision will not be covered by insurance.
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Re: What to look for in a "new" car.

Post by autostick »

U haul assumes all customers are idiots. Most are, trying to exceed trailer capacity. Is your F150 rated to haul 7,000 pounds? If so no problem. How far and how fast? If 25mph on short local roads you might try it. On the interstate it is just not worth it.
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Re: What to look for in a "new" car.

Post by toddallen »

I did lie to U Haul and towed my Lincoln on a U Haul trailer, I just told them I was towing my Mustang. However, the wheel wells are very narrow and you have to remove the rocker moldings so not to ruin them. My car at the time however did not have the engine or tranny in it so the weight was not an issue. IMO it would be best to contact another rental agency and rent a proper trailer if yours has the engine and tranny.
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Re: What to look for in a "new" car.

Post by Capek13 »

Well with the help and advice, I went and checked the car out today. Over all it was in decent shape. 63 sedan. I didnt take any pictures, but for those that are interested:

The good:
Motor was definitely taken care of, all the rubber and everything looked to be in good shape, no major rust or evidence of any mechanical issues. Fluids will need to be changed but no major issues there.
Interior was in great shape. Original leather, some creasing but no cracks. Carpet and headliner was good. Brightwork decent
The underneath had some scaling but no holes. Body was straight. Had some rust bubbles but no evidence of bondo or major rot.
New-er exhaust, gas tank, shocks, and coker tires on the car.


The bad:
The guy didnt have the key so couldn't test the electrical or mechanical. It doesnt look like there is anything hes hiding but seeing is believing
The paint job is horrible. Someone tried to repaint the car and did a horrible job. Run, sags, and peeling. Its going to need to be redone.
The underside of the motor was a bit oily. No drips, but I did see some fluid collecting on the bottom of the balancer which looked like antifreeze.
The dash bad had 4 major cracks and will need to be replaced.
The trunk had some bubbles coming through the outside paint so I'm a bit worried about the lid rotting. Didnt have the key so couldn't check the inside of the trunk.
Alot of the outer trim and brightwork was removed by the current owner and resides in the trunk. He swears its all there but without the key, no way to verify.
Quite a bit of scaling on the underside that will need to be cleaned up and recoated, (Por-15 here I come)
Car has basically sat in the same place for the last 2 years. They say its been moved several times, but not driven or maintained.

All in all, it was a decent starter, but will require quite a bit of work. I offerred him 5k in cash... see what he says. I think I'm overpaying given the condition, but these cars dont show up often on the east coast and I know he wouldnt take 4.

Let me know what yall think.

(Frgive my grammar, typing on an iPad is horrible)
- Jason
1963 sedan. Looks pretty and drives great. It's been a long time comin'.
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Re: What to look for in a "new" car.

Post by Dan Szwarc »

Does $5k include keys? You should tell him to have a set made if he lost them. Don't buy a car without keys. Watch out for a fake title.
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