1959 Hess and Eisenhardt Limousine.

[donnieboy]

Hi all,

About 18 months ago I purchased a '59 H&E Limousine and have questions about some particulars that would probably take somebody who worked for Hess and Eisenhardt at the time to answer. And I will start by saying it has a shade over 50,000 original miles, and they are correct. The car has never disassembled or tampered with.

My car is No. 400003, the third '59 Lincoln (produced September '58 if I remember correctly, my notes aren't in front of me) off the line for that model year. Is mine the first Limousine, are there any records as to what cars No. 1 and 2 were?

How did H&E make a prototype prior to '59, did they use a '58 and call it "close enough" or did they take mine and use it? The following information might support this idea.

I have the '59 Limousine/Town Car only sales literature. On the back cover are a list of standard options. My car lacks Directed Power Differential, both the actual rear end itself and the trunk lock cover.

Neither one of my rear antennas are powered. They have not been tampered with, there is no wiring going to them, and where the motor is omitted, it is capped with a gold cad plated plug, obvioiusly not an amateurs fix. It seems intentional that they were left as non-power units.

The front seat of a limo is supposed to be two-way power. My seat is in the correct pattern with the correct scotch grain leather and bellows going to the divider. It has the proper side trim and a four-way (two-ways were the same switch) power switch. The switch is a dummy with no power going to it. The seat frame is not even a manual Linocln seat frame (yes, manual seats were avaliable, the are rare but I have one). It is apparent that the frame is out of something else, and the feet have been shortened and brazed back on. Almost like they were prototyping. As a result, the seat is fixed.

The divider is the traditional divider that you see in every other '59 and '60 limo, and the partion is powered by both the passenger switch and the fifth switch on the drivers door panel.

Unfortunately, if there was a build sheet under either of the seats, they are gone.

I think there was one other standard option omitted, and I cannot remember what it was. I'll have to get out my sales literature again and add that once we get some dialogue going.

Here is what I know about the cars history:

It was sold new to the president of USF&G Insurance in Baltimore. This was either E. Asbury Davis or William E. Pullen, as there was a shift of power at that time in the company. The initials A.R.D. are faintly visible on both rear doors. Doug Shute of Maryland suggested that those are Mr. Davis' wifes initials, something that was done at the time. This was not a company car, it was privately owned. It was later sold in the 60's to an individual in the area, and then to his brother in Orlando in about 1980. Orlando is where I recovered the car. Doug says he has located a lady in the Baltimore area that claims she has a picture of the car with both her and the original owner, but has not yet gotten back to me with any details.

So, do any of you have special knowledge about these Hess and Eisenhardt Limousine's?

And thanks to the owner of this Forum. It has been a wonderful resource for everything imaginable.

Automotively,

Walter Higgins.
Little Rock, Ar.
1959 Lincoln Hess and Eisenhardt Limousine
1960 Lincoln Premiere 4dr. Sedan
1964 Lincoln Convertible

[Barry Wolk]

There is a man in Kentucky that retired from Hess & Eisenhardt with 39 years of service. He would remember that car. He was their floor production manager.

There must be a frame under it. I think Lincoln was pushing the limits of unibody with the standard car.

Send me an e-mail and I'll put you in touch with him. Mr. Hess' sons and daughter are still around.

We'd love to see pictures.

Barry

H & E Mark II convertible

[Chris Whalen]

Walter,

On eBay just a week or two ago, there was up for auction a 1958 Lincoln limousine with window divider. The seller was the owner of The Lincoln Farm, a Lincoln old parts vendor in Calvin, PA.

The auction was ended early, the listing saying the car was no longer available for sale.

Here's how the car was described (somewhere here, too, I have the auction number and copies of the pictures that were shown -- if you'd like, when I find them, I'll post them):

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR> Up for auction is a very rare 1958 Lincoln limousine being sold at no reserve!

It is in need of complete restoration. The odometer shows 51,508 miles and is believed to be the original miles as the leather is nice in the driver’s seat and the car has been off the road since the 1970’s. I have had this car for over 10 years and have come to the conclusion that I will never find time to restore it. This is one of the most unusual cars I have ever owned.

Lincoln didn’t make a ’58 limo from all the info you read, and we have come to two possible conclusions. One is that the car was custom built for someone. The other is that this car was a test bed for the limos that Lincoln planned to build starting in ’59.

I sent a video of this car to Mr. Hess (in his 90s at the time) of Hess & Eisenhardt, the builders of the ‘59 limos, about 8 years ago. He was still very quick mentally and he determined that it was not one of their conversions. He suggested that it could have been one of several test beds sent out to different body companies to see who would do the best job. He pointed out that the car has no emblems on it to identify the make or model and that Ford often removed such identity when working on projects of this type. Indeed, emblems are non-existent on this car and the only identifying mark is the “L” on the fuel access lid. There are no indications that there ever were. (Note: Incorrect, the pictures showed two more Lincoln emblems, in the center of the steering wheel and on the dash.)

I have never been able to come to an absolute conclusion as to how this automobile came into existence. The only light on the subject is a letter from Ford Research that the previous owner received (Note: One picture showed the letter addressed to a “Mr. Burlew.”) stating that it is one of only 12 built. Possibly 12 test beds for the limo divider glass? I still have the detailed video of the car that I sent to Mr. Hess and a copy is available to anyone who wants to view it. Call John at 814-448-9311 for details of how to obtain it.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

He description doesn't quote Hess as saying his company didn't produce a '58 prototype limo, just that it didn't produce that particular car. Interesting that you may have another prototype -- if the eBay '58 was/is actually a prototype and not some later, custom job.

[donnieboy]

Thank you for the prompt replies. When I have time later today or tomorrow, I'll go into greater detail about the current condition of the car, it is fair but still needs a full restoration.

In answer to Barry's statement about a frame, there is nothing unusual about the structure of this car. They really aren't much heavier than a regular Continental and they are not stretched (contrary to popular belief). The rear seat is moved back six inches, but that was only possible because of the roof extension. The only things adding to the weight are the partition, rear air conditioning unit, and the roof with extention and added weight of padding it. Other than that, it is a typical '59 Lincoln.

I am familiar with The Lincoln Farm's limo. Wasn't sure if he still had it. It has been on Ebay several times and I talked to the owner once. I was going to make a pilgrimage to see it when I was up that way, but couldn't find the time.

I will happily post pictures of the car on the board, if there is a way. If not, than please indicate you would like pictures and I will email them to you directly. Not much to see, really, just a standard '59 Limo aside from those few odd features. I'll post more about it's condition when I have time later.

Here is another thing which I had ponderings about: when were the standard '59 sales brochures printed? There is both a Limo and Town Car featured in that brochure. It may be that they produced a couple of cars for prototypes before they fired up the line. If they had the dies modified, there isn't any reason that they couldn't have set a few '58 structures to the side and applied '59 fenders and quarters to them later.

There were also some Lincoln pictures floating around out of a collection (the ones with which everyone is familiar from most Lincoln books) and I have the one of the Limo with the Premiere wheel covers on it and an interior shot, but no way to tell which car it is. Also an interesting one of the car Queen Elizabeth used in her Canadian tour that year, a '59 Limo with a folding rear top and covered drivers section. I'll see if I can scan those in and email those to whomever would wish to see them also. A little off topic, but I wonder where that car is today?

Thanks for all the posts so far, can't wait to see what everybody else has to contribute.

Walter.

[Barry Wolk]

Posting pictures to this site is fairly simple. Click on the Image button below your draft post and you will get a window that starts with http:// already filled in. Delete the http:// and paste in the picture's address.

You will need to find fictures already posted on the web. You can click on the picture and get an address to copy into the window listed above.

If the pictures you want to post are on your hard drive you will need to download them to a site like cardomain.com. Once loaded you can open a picture, copy its location into the Image window from this site and it should work. Give it a try. If it doesn't work we can decipher your entry and tell you how to correct it.

You can also give us a link to a web site by using the same proceedure using the URL link below.

Barry

Mark II convertible

[donnieboy]

When I get a chance I will try to download those pictures to a web site. Is that a free service or fee based? Currently, they are only on my computer at the house, so it might take a few days.

As for the condition of the car, here is how I found it. It was listed on Ebay back in February of last year. The car was in Orlando, about 1,000 miles from my house. Since the car was not running, I figured there wasn't much harm in not seeing it first so long as I could get a good description. It was accurately descibed as being structurally solid with some asthetic rust. I was told that the master cylinder had failed about six years ago, but he kept it started, until the starter failed about three years ago, then he fell ill and died. I was surprised to find when I arrived to pick it up that there were rust blisters in the upper parts of the quarters. I thought it was severe salt damage, but when I crawled under it to tie it down on the trailer, the underside was solid as could be. The inside of the car was packed full of parts so I couldn't tell until I got it to the house and started to unpack it that it had suffered from rat infestation. The sellers didn't know this either as the key was broken off in the trunk and the inside was just packed with parts. Problem is that the rats got into every crack and crevice and that is what caused the rust I was seeing. It was completely stuffed with the stuffing from the seats. The deck lid was the worst, which I have since replaced. The hood had typical '58 to '60 hood rust, and I've replaced that as well. The worst problem about the car was the roof. It still had the original vinyl on it, that is, until I took the car down the expressway upon retrieving it. The top was blowing all over the place, we really made a mess. Once I got it home, I removed the remains of the top and I think that was a mistake. I removed every scrap of top material, scraped the loose rust, vacuumed it clean, and put it in dry storage. I didn't get around to sandblasting it until just a few weeks ago and it had again rusted so much over 18 months that there were large chunks of scale coming off again. I think that top soaked up lots of salty rain water and held it there and my removing the top exposed it, accelerating the deterioration. Kind of like when they bring shipwrecks up from the depths of the ocean and they deteriorate rapidly unless kept in a tank. It is heavily pitted with holes down each side, and that is easy enough to repair, but the part over the rear window that is leaded-in is gone. The sides of the extension are still there, though. Fortunately, it doesn't have to be finished like a painted top, so that helps, but all the rust is stopped now.

I also got it running about six weeks ago. It was just as they had said, the starter was shot. Of course, starter replacement is no easy job on these, if you are familiar with them. I also went ahead and pulled the oil pan and cleaned it, and pre-primed the engine by running the oil pump before starting it. It runs great, no ticking lifters or anything.

So, at least it's where it can move under its own power. The car will have to be gutted and all four doors removed so I can sandblast the inside to stop all the rust the rats caused, but it's just superficial, not like the top. After that is finished, I will also have to replace all the dash wiring as the rats chewed it to pieces. Fortunately, we have a '59 parts car with the same options. Other than the roof damage and that caused by the rats, it's really a very good original car. Very little has been tampered with. So, whenever I start moving slow on it, I go back to my research, and that is why I'm here now.

Walter.

[Barry Wolk]

Go to http://www.cardomain.com and sign up, the service is free. Set up a home page and follow the instructions to load pictures.

Barry

[donnieboy]

Well, lets see how this works.
http://www.cardomain.com/id/eisenhardt

I don't know if that will come up as an active link or not, but you can at least copy and paste it into your browser.

There are two exterior shots, two interior shots, and one of part of the top. Some of what you see peeling off the top is the body filler they used at the factory to smooth over the rib in the roof. Alot of the rust occured here due to the fact that is was near to the leaking seam in the roof and that the filler became water-soaked and held the moisture against the roof. I'll try to get a current picture of the roof after sandblasting soon, if you wish to see what it looks like now.

The two interior shots just show the damage that the rats did. I actually have better pictures, but they are not digital, and the guy at work that can scan them in for me just left for two weeks training in Nebraska.

Enjoy.

Walter.

[Lugnut]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote

There must be a frame under it. I think Lincoln was pushing the limits of unibody with the standard car.

From looking at Walter's photos it appears what the coach builder did was the altering the roof turret in order to create more interior room by moving the rear seat back and possibly shortenting the trunk lid. It doesn't appear from the photos the car was subject to a stretch modification.

In any event, the car is certainly interesting and will be a real treasure once Walter has restored it. Hopefully, he can come up with enough info on the original mods to get it back the way it was.

[donnieboy]

Hiya Lugnut,

The features you mention are typical of all Hess and Eisenhardt Limousines and Town Cars for '59 and '60. The car is not lengthened, what they did was is they took a regular Continental and put a roof extension on the back, bringing the roof back to the front edge of the trunk rather than having that 18 inch, or so, deck panel you see on the standard Continental, very much like they did on the Premiere's in '60 (except on a Premiere, the wrap-around glass finished this effect). Actually, a '60 Premiere has 6 inches more leg-room in the back and the arm rest is moved back on the door panel, just like on my Limo. All '58 to '60's use the same trunk lid, regardless of body style (one of the few parts that interchanges between these years).

Fortunately, it does not appear to be modified from it's original state in any way, shape, or form. I just want to know if there is any correlation between the unusual, omitted, standard features on my car, and it being one that came off the assebly line so early.

I have learned that when you order a custom car such as this, nothing is standard. I've seen a Town Car with no divider, but it had a second radio and rear air conditioning. Also, I've seen a Town Car with all Grey scotch grain leather (including grey vinyl headliner) interior that I would swear was unmolested. I guess when you paid $10,000 for a car back then, you could have it made any way you wanted. Just that, normally, you don't see them with the luxuries omitted, like my lack of power antennas and power seat. I will say that I have seen three Town Cars and two other Limos of the '59 - '60 type in person and they all had Directed Power Differential. Odd for my car not to have it given that it was sold in Baltimore and that the sales literature states it is a standard feature.

Also, I guess if you saw it that my link must be working. Good to know, first time I've ever done that.

Walter.

[W. Higgins]

Barry, I want to thank you for putting me in touch with Mr. Sears. We spoke briefly on Saturday. Right then and there he could not remember my car in particular (he did say the seat modification sounded like something they would have done) but he told me to take pictures and mail him a letter and he would dig through his records and try to revive old memories, and whatever he came up with he would share with me.

Thanks again,

Walter.

[Barry Wolk]

Walter,

I tried to e-mail you but you need to provide a link or email me at barry2952@twmi.rr.com.

I'd like to have you take pictures of the areas of the interior sheet metal where H & E made the modifications necessary to move the seat back. I'm trying to determine how much effort was given to finishing metal parts that were hidden from view?

Barry

Mark II convertible

[W. Higgins]

Sorry Barry, I was one of those unfortunate people whose I.D.'s got eatten by that great big cyber monkey in the sky a couple of weeks ago. You should be able to click me now and get an address. That is why everything on this thread now says "unregistered".

If you want pictures of the finish of the metal itself, pictures won't help you too much on mine as the rat piss had an adverse effect on it. As far as I can tell, is was finished in a manner consistent with regular '59 Lincoln production. Unfortunately, the same cannot be said for the roof extension, as they seem not to have made any effort whatsoever to paint it. The factory roof weathered far better than did their extension. But the modified package tray and such in the rear did seem to be sprayed in black enamel, which was probably done after they repained that section ahead of the trunk. If you look at these H&E cars that still have original paint, they all have paint failure around where they leaded in that back panel and blended the paint back in. I think the inside of the car was refinished at this time. Too bad they didn't hit the top as well.

And again, thank you for putting me in touch with Mr. Sears. I mailed him all of my information a couple of weeks ago and I am anxiously awaiting a reply.

If you'd still like pictures, let me know.

[W. Higgins]

Oooh, I was wrong, there still isn't an email address. It is machineman2960@yahoo.com I'll go check my privacy settings now.

[Barry Wolk]

When I said finish I guess I meant the texture of the metal. On my car, things hidden from view are pretty rough. I was curious about the seat extention construction of your car. Were welds ground where they would not be seen?

Please post the pictures here or on cardomain.com.

Thanks,

Barry

Mark II convertible