selling and possibly buying . . . .

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Gerald F. Chase
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selling and possibly buying . . . .

Post by Gerald F. Chase »

I have bought cars only from private sellers for the last 25 years. For the last dozen years or so, I use strictly CraigsList for possibilities. The Boston-area "pony sheets" have gone out of business: I suspect because of on-line competition. [I despise E-Bay: for one thing, one never knows the geographical area that the car for sale is in.. without doing tedious clicking. In severe contrast, CraigsList informs you right away!]

I find it intriguing to occasionally observe 'odd' behavior of sellers.. for cars that haven't sold.. for months, sometimes over a year or so. Let me tell you about a good example. Not far from me.. is a man who has been trying to sell a nice '87 Crown Victoria... for over 17 months now. I did go see the car about 15 months ago. I liked it.. and would have bought it.... but I thought that his price was too high. He started around $3200, moving to $2850 about fourteen months ago.

After examining the car, I tried to determine if there was any room for price adjustment.... and I actually strayed a bit from my usual way. Instead of asking (sensing resistance) that "I can't imagine paying over $1900 for it." He declined, and I went politely on my way.

He e-mailed me around last October, saying that I could have it for $1900.... but by that time, I had bought something else. C'est la vie.

Now to my surprise, he's got it advertised again... for $3800. And it was the only such car for sale in the Boston-area Craigslist for '77 - '95 Crown Vics.... and has happened before. Now, to be sure, there's always a certain small percentage of sellers that always hang on for top buck... just like there's always bargain-hunter buyers, looking for ultra-cheap bargains. But this guy seems out-of-touch with reality, it seems to me.

I do understand sellers being patient, refusing to sell below what they deem as a fair price. But such 'sellers' seem to be oblivious to "the market", and how that affects pricing.

There's always a few folks that we cannot "figure out"... like my old high school trigonometry teacher. But I simply ask readers on this forum.. to comment upon this "behavior" that seems a bit odd to me. Another thing that this "seller" doesn't perceive... is that in certain areas of the USA due to weather changes, the season of the year affects "sale-ability": Spring is the time to sell, and Fall is the time for buyers. This guy seemingly has no clue.. on that... and other things.

I ask you LCOC participants to post comments to me on this 'sort of odd' phenomenon.
Last edited by Gerald F. Chase on Wed Sep 19, 2018 2:34 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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LithiumCobalt
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Re: selling and possibly buying . . . .

Post by LithiumCobalt »

I don’t find it odd at all. The guy is obviously in no hurry to sell and wants what he wants. If no one is willing to buy at his asking price, it must not bother him much? $3,000 for a low mileage well kept car is dirt cheap, in my opinion. You can barely buy rusted out complete pieces of shit for much less than that. If someone asks $50k for a $10k car, that’s a different story. When people haggle over $50-100 on a car that is for sale for less than $3,000, I just think that’s ridiculous.
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Re: selling and possibly buying . . . .

Post by ContiFan »

There can be a variety of reasons why sellers price or re-price cars, accept or don't accept offers at a particular time, etc. Sometimes people aren't particularly anxious or desperate to sell a car, sometimes circumstances at the time or in the future require a quick sale, sometimes repairs (possibly unexpected) or improvements are done after initially listing it for sale, etc.

In the case of this Crown Vic, the ad states that it has a new battery, fuel tank, and fuel pump which (assuming done fairly recently) would explain some of the increased price.
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Re: selling and possibly buying . . . .

Post by Gerald F. Chase »

Lithium Cobalt and ContiFan, Thank you for your responses here.

Yes, the reasons for behaviors and decisions can be "manifold". lol

I still have said seller's CraigsList ad from late last March... in which he had the same price posted.. as of the previous October. And the new battery, new fuel pump, and new fuel tank were already done when I examined the car in the early Summer of 2017. I didn't even care that this Crown Vic had crank windows. It did have a really nice cloth interior... that was not that awful, dreadful velour... which is horrible!

So, OK, the seller is holding out for what he wants. As I used to say, anybody that wants to sell a car, wants as much as he can get for it; and anybody that wants to buy a given car, wants to purchase it for as few dollars as possible. This is normal. When a seller, not needing to sell, agrees with a buyer who doesn't have to buy, then a sale can take place. Yet I continue to believe that this 'seller' is somewhat out-of-touch with market reality. Only a relatively-small percentage of used car buyers will buy something older than, say, 25 years old. While the supply of good 30-year-old cars is low, the amount of such buyers is also low. It'll be interesting to watch the ads for this particular car... which has been 'for sale' for about 16 - 17 months... to note how long it takes for it to sell. My bet is that it's going to be quite a while... especially because folks around here will be soon thinking of home heating expenses, Christmas, and Winter weather... and that means it won't likely sell until at least next Spring, IMO.

I admit that I'm a cheapskate. I paid a total of $4900 for my last three car purchases [$1500, $1200, and $2200]... and each one continues to look & run fine. I wish that I could buy another one or two... but there's only so much room... and other things.
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Re: selling and possibly buying . . . .

Post by onedollarbob »

Have to agree with Lithium on $3k. To get any car in good shape that doesn't require a lot of maintenance and could be used as a frequent driver, $3k is rock bottom regardless of age or desirability. That's basically the price for transportation not including any other added value. In SoCal, you are really talking even $4k. When my '83 Mark VI was totaled with 148,000 miles, insurance had to do a manual appraisal and came up with $5200 for an original car in decent driver condition. But in the end that's anecdotal.

Ultimately, a car is worth what it sells for. A lot of sellers *and* buyers, I have found, are not motivated. So cars sit at high prices and buyers make low offers, and neither the twain shall meet.
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Gerald F. Chase
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Re: selling and possibly buying . . . .

Post by Gerald F. Chase »

"onedollarbob"... I'm not surprised that Southern California prices are somewhat higher. We 'furriners' could say that such is your "sunshine tax". Don't tell Governor Brown!

I bought my last Lincoln TC in late October, 2015... just 37 minutes North of me... for the 'princely' sum of $1200. It still functions just fine---the car's A/C even accepted and held a fresh charge of R134a. The leather is lightly crinkled (but NO tears!) from an unknown tenure in Florida (though sold new in New Eng.).. and I got lots of unsolicited compliments on its appearance. The paint is not bad... and it has no dents or damage. So, I say that a good, reasonable-length-wheelbase RWD can be had for two grand, or a bit less.

To be fair, the seller had been advertising it for sale on CraigsList for about four months. He lives just a bit SouthWest of Boston... so he "should" have had lots of potential buyers / inquiries. Maybe I "played it right" and got a bit lucky. But I've bought two '89 Chevy Caprice sedans for similar cheap money: the first one is "a garage queen" that I bought twelve years ago for $1500----it was so nice I didn't even look at the odometer! The second one I bought a few months ago on Cape Cod.. from the original owner. That one I paid a little more than I normally would [$2200], despite its high miles.. but runs perfectly, with no oil consumption or fluid leaks --- at 221,000 miles, no less! It was precisely what was most practical for me now. It will eventually be my parts car for my garage queen. [FYI, that's a total sum of $4900 for my last three car purchases; and my 'sphere' is not an economically-depressed area.]

But nice Eighties Town Cars.. seem to have almost disappeared.. on the private-sale used car market.. just in the last couple years. It's a function of so much time having gone by now. And yes, I would prefer another TC over any Chevy.... but sometimes "lightning strikes" when unexpected.
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Re: selling and possibly buying . . . .

Post by defrang »

How many land yachts can you fit in your garage Gerald?
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Re: selling and possibly buying . . . .

Post by onedollarbob »

I can't speak for what the market was in 2015. Back then I still saw '80s TC's on the road. I'm sure most of them even in Los Angeles were barely worth $1200. I think I haven't seen more than one or two in this year of 2018, and they were parked and looked undrivable. Also, all markets are local. Finally, there is a reason that car is still $3800 list price and you didn't get it for $1900. Just saying.

P.S. I didn't vote for Brown.
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Gerald F. Chase
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Re: selling and possibly buying . . . .

Post by Gerald F. Chase »

"onedollarbob", For me, it's simply surprise that in the same three-year period which you cite as an example, the number of available-but-decent 80s TCs.. has dropped precipitously.. in only 3 years. I know of no reason why it would be much different elsewhere. I'm glad that I bought my last one when I did: in Oct., '15. Yes, I would 'prefer' a Signature interior over the Cartier that's in it.... but the price was definitely right. And fortunately, I bought an old RWD GM to be my "salt-catcher" this Winter... so I can leave the Lincoln at home.

I continue to believe that the days of good, very-reasonably-priced 80s TCs.. has gone by, in large measure. In retrospect, that "window" wasn't open super-long. It's mostly 'shut' now, I think (because supply has become scarce)... unless one gets really lucky----and that's rare. Most of the sellers with really nice ones.. have awakened.... and priced 'em accordingly. The really good ones are no longer just nice used cars. This is not a new phenomenon. For example, when good 60s LCCs were only ten or twelve years old, they could be sometimes had 'for a song'.. but that situation didn't last very long. Such happens all the time.
Last edited by Gerald F. Chase on Mon Sep 24, 2018 6:16 pm, edited 9 times in total.
Gerald F. Chase
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Re: selling and possibly buying . . . .

Post by Gerald F. Chase »

defrang wrote:How many land yachts can you fit in your garage Gerald?
Only one. IMO, an 80s TC barely qualifies as "a land yacht" - - it's almost not big enough.

For the record, though, I could comfortably fit a twelve-cylinder classic into my garage. My wallet is another thing: LOL
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