OFFICIAL THREAD: Gas Prices, your Lincoln, and you

[JimA]

As Dan said, electric cars are fun to drive. They also require less maintenance than an ICE car. But they are not pollution free.

Most electricity in the USA is made from fossil fuel because it is cheaper to make than any other method to make electricity. Wind and solar electric generators are less expensive once you pay of the initial cost of installing them, but they are very unreliable sources of generating electricity. Nuclear power is more expensive to produce and the waste products pollute for thousands of years.

The batteries can be very dangerous if not treated properly. The was a fire at a battery storage facility south of Chicago last year. People from a large area had to leave their homes for a few weeks until the fire departments could extinguish the fire. The toxic fumes were very dangerous. Are you satisfied that local or federal governments can make sure that the recycling is done properly. I am not. There are still sites in northern Illinois that are full of nuclear waste that the federal government said they would handle back in the early 1970's. The battery storage facility was registered as a paper recycling facility.

Another concern is range. Currently the range of an EV is less than 400 miles and that range is reduced dramatically if you drive at current highway speeds of 70 mph. At that speed it is probably closer to 200 miles. Then you have to give it a slow charge for 14 hours. TonyC would not be able to make his planned trip if he was doing it in an EV. With his ICE, he can fill up his tank and drive for 200 miles, stop at a gas station for 10 minutes and then drive another 200 miles.

Would I buy an EV? Probably yes if I were looking for a newer car. I am 88 years old and do not drive long distances any more, so the range would not affect me. I can keep the car in a heated garage that is not attached to my home, so I don't have to worry as much about the fire problem. I would have to have my electric service and panel updated which will probably add the cost to the value of my house when sold. I would not have to worry about scheduling an appointment to have the car serviced as they require very little service.

Very balanced view of EVs!! Only things I would add are buyers and fed-charging stations are subsidized by folks who can't afford one, the unfair exemption from road taxes, and our dependence on adversaries for minerals for the batteries. Once generating capacity and grid expansion are solved, EVs make a lot of sense to me in dense population areas if they're not required for long drives.

[frasern]

This is a bit off topic for a "Gas Prices" thread, but I'm a sucker for a good hijack!
I have criticized EVs before, but let me elaborate, my concern is only with the batteries. As a retired railroader, I have no doubt about the strength and reliability of the traction motors, I have pulled 20,000 ton trains uphill, and held them back with dynamic brakes going downhill, but these are diesel- electric. Battery powered vehicles are heavier than their counterparts, and getting heavier.
The tiny experimental EVs we saw years ago, cannot be marketed, range and safety concerns dictate larger vehicles. For years, we have been told to buy smaller, more fuel efficient cars, but people chose larger, I expect that to continue. A larger vehicle, requires more energy, it may be a different type of energy, but we will still be using more of it. We will need more electric generation, which will have an impact, more battery manufacturing, and recycling, transportation of raw and finished products. How all of this will play out is yet unknown, but I don't see it as saving the planet under existing conditions. But new forms of batteries, and generation may be on the horizon.
With that said, I would like to test drive an EV, I think it would be fun and interesting, but I'm not likely to buy one yet. I hope to still have 20-30 years of driving left in me, so I won't say never.

[JimA]

I hope the expectations for solutions to the EV issues aren't like the expectations for nuclear waste solutions and nuclear fusion generation by year 2000 (remember "cold fusion"?).

[mlj427]

As Frasern talked about diesel - electric trains I have always thought that’s the way to go especially for trucks. Build a gas or diesel generator which they could make very efficient since it only runs at one RPM with a traction motor or motors.

[tomo]

I have always thought that a condensing steam engine would be a better option than diesel. The Stirling Hot air engine would also be less polluting than the diesel engine.
Please no comments about using the hot air in DC to run the engine.

[JimA]

Good that the discussion has turned to solutions. Mine would be compressed natural gas as an intermediate step and many, many small solar electrolysis Hydrogen generating refueling facilities and fuel cells in vehicles for the long term. ABSOLUTELY emission-free operation in the long term.

[frasern]

Locomotives have 8 speeds, and no batteries. The power from dynamic braking is wasted. Hybrid gas-electric cars use a small engine to charge a battery. This idea may be used in the future for locomotives, but the technology is not here yet.

I have always liked the hydrogen angle, apparently Ford is Experimenting with hydrogen ICEs. Small solar plants are the way to go, governments will hate them, very hard to tax! But the public has to get over the "Hindenburg" fear, compressed hydrogen should be as safe as propane.

Steam has a lot of potential, but high maintenance, and huge safety concerns. I doubt safety advocates will stand for unlicensed people operating or servicing them, so the costs may be too high to be practical.

Forgive my negativity, I'm trying to be optimistic!

[TonyC]

If I know government, and I can say with confidence that I do, they'd find ways to tax anything. I'm surprised they haven't yet tried to impose a breathing tax, but I don't doubt someone thought about it.

It would be nice if hydrogen were as safe as propane...but even if it were, the government would still flex its muscle and impose mandatory sanctions on it, like they did with Duracool (which really grinds my gears).

But truth is, hydrogen isn't as safe as propane. It is the most flammable element in existence, as Hindenburg learned the hard way, and numerous other airships before it (e.g., ask British historians about R-101). It sounds nice, but I have more confidence in hydrogen as a nuclear fuel than a chemical fuel (yes, "cold fusion" was a dud, but physicists are still working on how to contain a proper fusion reaction). I mean, I want to be optimistic about the fueling future as well; I've just learned enough about the world to keep that optimism in check.

Unless/Until somebody undoes the damage being caused now, I just have to stick with a $3.50 bottle of octane booster with every fill-up of 87.

---Tony

[ContiFan]

As Frasern talked about diesel - electric trains I have always thought that’s the way to go especially for trucks. Build a gas or diesel generator which they could make very efficient since it only runs at one RPM with a traction motor or motors.

Mercedes-Benz has had diesel electric hybrids for a while and more recently introduced a plug-in diesel hybrid. I don't think the diesel PHEV is expected to be offered in North America. These would be fairly short-lived anyway as Mercedes-Benz expects the brand to be fully electric by 2030.

[JimA]

https://twitter.com/hkuppy/status/1402825213956472836

[Castrosua]

We need to start leaning how to make home made gasoline. Diesel isnt so hard but gasoline...Im no chemist, so maybe that can be a thing!

[Dan Szwarc]

Regular in this area is $5.00 to $5.30. Premium is $5.50 to $5.90.

I haven't moved my car all year. Not because of prices, though.

I just looked at the first post from 2013. We were complaining about $3 gas.

[papawayne]

Mine's still in the garage, too. Not because I don't want to move it, but because I can't seem to find the time to get it out. Not going on any long trips, though, just within the area or a couple of hours away. Wayne

[rick]

Hi All,

Watching the TV "Lincoln Lawyer" series with my wife and he's driving a '63 vert....... or maybe a '62....... not sure. But it inspired me.

So last night I went for a midnight ride. Thirty mile loop.

It was a warm night and cruising at forty-five on an empty road with the windows down - always makes me feel good. Every once in a while somebody rolled up behind, so I sped up a bit till they passed me. It occurred to me that I was getting nine miles to the gallon and laughed. I'd do it for two miles a gallon. These slab sides are the best.

[stevedrums]

i've stopped drinking to afford gasoline for random cruising