Authenticity to the Extreme: 66 vs. 67

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Re: Authenticity to the Extreme: 66 vs. 67

Postby ekm330 » Sat Jul 09, 2011 5:04 pm

I am inclined to think box is mounted too far aft. With a wider shot, I would like to see the box relative to the striker plate for the hood catch, as well as the proximity to the radiator. The aft edge of the box should be in line with the forward edge of the striker plate for the hood catch. From the photos I have looked at, the '66 box is in the same place as '67 and the boxes are interchangeable; '66/'67, vert/sedan/coupe
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Re: Authenticity to the Extreme: 66 vs. 67

Postby Dan Szwarc » Sat Jul 09, 2011 8:31 pm

I've installed a lot of these boxes. I can't see how one can screw that up. The forward box screw attaches to the radiator shroud.
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Re: Authenticity to the Extreme: 66 vs. 67

Postby ekm330 » Sat Jul 09, 2011 8:51 pm

Dan Szwarc wrote:I've installed a lot of these boxes. I can't see how one can screw that up. The forward box screw attaches to the radiator shroud.


I agree it should be a straightforward install; hard to screw up since all the mounting holes should be there. However, crazy happens. We don't know if the original screw holes have been obliterated by rust, body work, or who knows what. It appears to me that the box has been mounted too far back, by an inch or so (for whatever reason). That's why I requested additional photos pulled back showing more. We can only speculate until additional photos are posted.
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Re: Authenticity to the Extreme: 66 vs. 67

Postby RMAENV » Sat Jul 09, 2011 10:08 pm

When I got the 66 the 1st thing I did was full tune with all new parts. Was the 1st time in 40 years of playing with cars that I had to use a spark plug socket and an open end wrench to turn it to get a plug out. Both cars appear to have used the orignial holes for the shield (I for sure have no extra ones on mine). I did not see any on the 67 as I thought maybe someone had moved it. Both cars have the front attached to the radiator with no bends in the front part of the shield.

I have a movie shoot with my 57 chevy in the morning so I will try to do more pics of my 66 either tomorrow afternoon or Monday and post.
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Re: Authenticity to the Extreme: 66 vs. 67

Postby Dan Szwarc » Sun Jul 10, 2011 8:31 am

If Rob says he experienced a difference then the difference is real. But is the battery box what was different or was the motor simply more forward in the engine compartment?
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Re: Authenticity to the Extreme: 66 vs. 67

Postby ekm330 » Sun Jul 10, 2011 11:08 am

The position of the engine is adjustable fore and aft?
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Re: Authenticity to the Extreme: 66 vs. 67

Postby Dan Szwarc » Sun Jul 10, 2011 12:24 pm

ekm330 wrote:The position of the engine is adjustable fore and aft?


No. But kludged, failing, or incorrect motor mounts might offset its position.
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Re: Authenticity to the Extreme: 66 vs. 67

Postby RMAENV » Sun Jul 10, 2011 10:16 pm

I'm going to size the pics I did tonight and post tomorrow. I shot the shield mounting fore and aft (is factory) spark plug wire removed socket and wrench on plug to remove and the angle showing how rachet will not go on socket on plug because shield is in the way. I also have a pic of 67 with socket and extension sliding right on plug without and obstruction.

The car is a real almost 50k car. When bought in '07 one of the first things we did was to replace the timing chain and gears and I kept the original chain and plastic gear with no broken or missing teeth, no heat or stress cracks on the gear and no visably noticeable chain stretch. Unless the original gear was changed with another plastic one before me I have to believe it is the factory piece. The car was purchased from the Shriners in Roanoke VA. The title I got (have scans and copies) identifies they got the car in 1986 with 42,750 mi. I bought it in 2007 with 47,500 and they said it was only used as a parade car for 20 years. It was given to them from a wealthy hotel (Holiday Inn before went publice as Prime Motor Inns) owner. The radiator has the original Ford Stamping and the clock still works and is stamped 1/66 (Car manufacture date is 2/14/66). Even have the original rubber floor mats. There is nothing in this car other than I got it with a vintage 1983 Sony Am/FM Cassette radio that we have not found to be original except for wear items. I got an original AM/FM and had Mike Hagan update it and installed it. We scoped the oil pan when we did the timing chain and it was a s clean as the day it left the factory. Even had a goodyear gold seal 9.15 X 15 bias ply in the trunk for a spare. I have 2 build sheets 1 from under drivers seat and 1 on backrest of back seat. For the 1st 47K miles I do not know if there were motor mount issues but I know there are and have been none since I've owned the car. The brake lines (3) we replaced were all FOMOCO stamped originals and all the A/C lines are original with the exception of the leaking one (at fitting) we just replaced last month. The coil I got with the car I still have and also appears FOMOCO original Black with mustard colored top. Carb still has tag on it and appears never to have been off the car. Battery tray is original with the exception of the rustolem semi gloss I put on it after I cleaned it up.Doubt the speedo was tampered with as all of the mileage and trip numbers line up exactly. There is noting underneath or in the engine bay that indicates the motor was ever out of the car.

Although I can not confirm (original owner passed, wife is 93 and not available to me) I believe the car was used as a courtesy vehilcle to transport guests to and from Roanoke Airport to the Holiday Inn (2 1/2 miles).
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Re: Authenticity to the Extreme: 66 vs. 67

Postby Dan Szwarc » Mon Jul 11, 2011 6:38 am

If you post more pics, show one with a yard stick/ruler/measuring tape from a key location so others can check and compare theirs.
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Re: Authenticity to the Extreme: 66 vs. 67

Postby RMAENV » Mon Jul 11, 2011 5:50 pm

Evening All,

here are the pics a couple more I had of the 67 and I think 11 of my 66 (plug behind box). Dan, I didn't see your post before I did the work last night but I think the distance with the socket, rachet and wrench will give everyone a distance idea. Would need the motor to go back or the box forward 1/2 the width of a 13/16" socket plus a bit (1/8") for clearance. So I guess we are discussing 1 1/4 - 1/1/2 inches.

I forgot to date some of the pics of the 66. So only the 1st 3 pics are of the 67 and are marked so. All of the rest of the pics (white body) are of my 66.
Attachments
66 HEAT SHIELD.JPG
66 shield front
66 HEAT SHIELD1.JPG
66 shield attached at rad
66 HEAT SHIELD2.JPG
66 plug and wire behind box
66 HEAT SHIELD3.JPG
plug exposed
66 HEAT SHIELD4.JPG
66 shield at washer bag
66 HEAT SHIELD5.JPG
66 plug with socket and extension
66 HEAT SHIELD6.JPG
66 plug with socket and extension
66 HEAT SHIELD7.JPG
socket and wrench works for tune-up
66 HEAT SHIELD8.JPG
ratchet head against box
66 HEAT SHIELD9.JPG
ratchet head against box 1
66 HEAT SHIELD10.JPG
shield attache to rad full forward
66 HEAT SHIELD11.JPG
pic of shield mount at waser bag from driver side
67 HEAT SHIELD.JPG
***67 Shield
67 HEAT SHIELD1.JPG
***67 plug with socket and extension
67 HEAT SHIELD2.JPG
***67 mounting at waser bag
Rob
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Re: Authenticity to the Extreme: 66 vs. 67

Postby ekm330 » Mon Jul 11, 2011 7:30 pm

By this photo, I can see that the aft side of the box is exactly where it should be for '66 and '67s.

Image

I would submit that if you measured the distance of the aft edge of the box to a fixed point at the front on both cars, you'd get the same measurement. I would never have thought that an engine could be too far forward, but Dan's explanation about failed engine mounts makes sense. It seems that your engine is a little too far forward :smt017
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Re: Authenticity to the Extreme: 66 vs. 67

Postby ekm330 » Mon Jul 11, 2011 7:44 pm

Here's another thing I noticed. It may be an optical illusion or the angle, but it seems your fan blade is deeper into the fan shroud than mine. I have about 3/4 of an inch from the aft edge of the fan blade to the edge of the fan shroud. Since the expansion tank is affixed to the engine, check the distance between the front edge of the tank and the edge of the fan shroud. Mine has a gap of 1 5/8 inches. What's yours?

66%20HEAT%20SHIELD1.JPG
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Re: Authenticity to the Extreme: 66 vs. 67

Postby RMAENV » Mon Jul 11, 2011 9:45 pm

Hi Kent,

Just measured based on what you drew on the pic. I am at 1 7/32"- 1 1/4" so your motor is back or radiator forward (toward grill). But 3/8" won't get a socket and extension in there and for sure will not look like the 67. You are probably looking at the width of 1 1/2 sockets to get a socket and rachet to work comfortably. So if the socket is 13/16" ID you are looking to move "something" (shield or motor) 1 1/2 inches. That is a big distance.

Ok, so now we know there is 3/8" difference from the front of the tank to the fan shroud in our cars. So let's go the other way. Since the carb stud is fixed (I have original carb) also let's measure from the lip on the firewall to the center of the stud. I am at 16 1/8". I also measured from the lip on the firewall to the back side lip of the tank (where the cap is) and I am at 25 1/2". What is yours?

BTW, I am not sure I mentioned this before but my car (66 plug covered by shield) is a convertible and the 67 I used is a 2 door.

Kind of wish AnthLinc would chime in here with his 66 convertible. I will give him a call in the morning. He has a 66 convertible also. But I would still like your measurements from the firewall lip if you don't mind, Kent
Last edited by RMAENV on Mon Jul 11, 2011 10:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Rob
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1957 Chevy Bel Air Resto-Mod (Anthricite/Black)
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Re: Authenticity to the Extreme: 66 vs. 67

Postby ekm330 » Mon Jul 11, 2011 10:26 pm

Rob, this is what I have (appx. 25") to the rear edge of the tank. I also measured from the lip to the center point of the air cleaner wingnut; 15 7/8" exactly

1967 Lincoln Convertible Pics 029.jpg
Last edited by ekm330 on Tue Jul 12, 2011 12:14 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Authenticity to the Extreme: 66 vs. 67

Postby jsanford » Tue Jul 12, 2011 12:11 am

This could be caused by using the incorrect motor mounts on your convertible. The convertible requires special mounts because the frame mounting point is further forward than on a closed car. Just a thought.

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