WANT TO INSTALL A 460 385 SERIES IN MY 65' CONTINENTAL

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WANT TO INSTALL A 460 385 SERIES IN MY 65' CONTINENTAL

Post by 1970ls5 »

I Want to re-power my cherry 1965 Continental convertible with a more modern, fuel efficent engine and trans combo, the 430 that is in the car leaks oil like it is suppossed to and runs on 7 cylinders most of the time. I am a licensed A&P mechanic and build engines and cars, just not real familiar with what will work in this front sump unibody. Am leaning towards the 385 series 460 and an overdrive, any ideas out there?

I can't be the only one that wants that 310HP turd out of there for a more modern, hyd. roller cammed, aluminum headed, aluminum intake engine. What will be the problems in the swap, what have you guys used or seen, don't want another MEL so don't even suggest the 1966 462, want modern engine and combustion chambers with hardened valve seats.

Please tell me what you think. Dave
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Re: WANT TO INSTALL A 460 385 SERIES IN MY 65' CONTINENTAL

Post by Dan Szwarc »

Please try searching this forum.

This question comes up again and again. You win the honor of being the first post moved to the sticky forum, a forum for topics asked again and again.

Start here: http://www.thelincolnforum.net/phpbb3/v ... 12&t=30557

Considering they put a 460 in the Last Unibody Continental, the 1969 Continental, it's possible.
http://www.thelincolnforum.net/phpbb3/v ... =1&t=29750
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Re: WANT TO INSTALL A 460 385 SERIES IN MY 65' CONTINENTAL

Post by 1970ls5 »

As you can see, I just joined here, and have found in all the other forums that I belong to (have over 2000 posts or threads started on Yellowbullit alone) that the search feature is unreliable and overated.

I am honored to be your poster child and will wear that badge with pride! Thanks for the info on the 1969 Connie, I know the 385 series came out in 68' and if installed in 1969 as you say there should be factory parts to do the job. One of the posts you gave me a link to said he had to notch the frame? and massage the transmission tunnel, I do not understand why and asked him, hopefully I will hear back.

If anyone else has somthing to add, big or small, please respond, I need to learn about this car and the swap I want to attempt. Dave
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Re: WANT TO INSTALL A 460 385 SERIES IN MY 65' CONTINENTAL

Post by Dan Szwarc »

If you want a step-by-step guide, you won't find it here.

If you want a list of what to buy, nope.

If you want the one or two people who have done it to post how, not likely.

The search function searches for the terms you use. You still have to read the threads. I found those myself.
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Re: WANT TO INSTALL A 460 385 SERIES IN MY 65' CONTINENTAL

Post by 1970ls5 »

Dan, although new to your site I have looked around and found that from the posts I have seen I will have to agree with you, the people here are not to technical. I have already formulated a plan, just thought I would ask on this site and others that deal with Continentals and MEL engines and see what I come up with, no worries, if nothing comes of this I will still go ahead with what I wanted to do, just thought someone out there might have already done this or was smarter then me.

If you are interested, Mobsteel is doing Modular conversions and I might be swayed to go in that direction with a Coyote, we will see. Thanks, Dave
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Re: WANT TO INSTALL A 460 385 SERIES IN MY 65' CONTINENTAL

Post by Highlander64 »

1970ls5 wrote:Dan, although new to your site I have looked around and found that from the posts I have seen I will have to agree with you, the people here are not to technical. I have already formulated a plan, just thought I would ask on this site and others that deal with Continentals and MEL engines and see what I come up with, no worries, if nothing comes of this I will still go ahead with what I wanted to do, just thought someone out there might have already done this or was smarter then me.

If you are interested, Mobsteel is doing Modular conversions and I might be swayed to go in that direction with a Coyote, we will see. Thanks, Dave
Coyote, while a novel and intriguing idea, is still a small block which lacks a big block's low end power. These cars are more than a ton heavier than the current Mustang and that is a significant inertial obstacle to overcome (i.e. it takes more than just doubling the number of forward gears to make it make sense).

The issue with this forum is not so much one of lacking technical expertise, but a lack of follow-through - endemic to most forums (fora?). People ask a question, wait ten minutes for an answer, then give up waiting and figure it out. Once figured out, they don't revisit the topic to explain what they figured out, post pics, or post how-to's. In many cases, they disappear altogether, or when pressed for more info they give none. You can search for my several threads regarding the 64-65 ammeter issue - I even posted pictures and not a soul can/will give me a straight answer from their own experience.

Be patient, and a lot of information comes to the surface here. Be impatient, and you'll never get a chance to see the glacier move. Don't give up yet, is what I'm saying. And if you do proceed, then please, by all means please, post pictures and describe the steps you took. You might be the one with the next million dollar idea, and if you don't share it nobody will know it, want it, or buy it.
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Re: WANT TO INSTALL A 460 385 SERIES IN MY 65' CONTINENTAL

Post by 1970ls5 »

Chris, I have only seen ONE Boss 429 in my life in person and it was at the AACA museum in Hershey, it was not thiers, they couldn't afford it, it was on loan form someones collection, so I know you are a serious player!

I am not a fan of the small displacment engines either, but they get them to work with multi-geared modern transmissions that keep the little thing in the powerband. Really want the 460 with alloy heads and intake, just not sure what alloy intake will fit under the 65's hood, it is LOW! The modular motors are appealing because of thier lack of weight and reliability, but I am not excited about having to deal with fuel injection, stand alone engine harnesses and transmission controllers. Just got done doing that in a 1967 Corvette that we put a crate from GMPP ZO6 engine in, it is dry sump, 427 cubic inches and I am running factory sidepipes, it is one of the fastest cars I have ever driven! I put the info in the computer to see what the quarter mile time is and it came up 10.55!, the car weighs 2920# and has a C4 suspension front and rear.

Based on the Corvette and how that LS motor suprised me I was looking at the MOD motor from Ford, but really like the 460 motor better with it's simplicity.

Does anyone know where I can get the frame mounts for a 460 to match up with the motor mounts. If I can find 1969 Connie 460 frame mounts easily that would make me want to go in that direction. Thanks for your help. Dave








3
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Re: WANT TO INSTALL A 460 385 SERIES IN MY 65' CONTINENTAL

Post by ReijerLincoln »

Dave, I think you will receive more constructive comments and answers to your questions if you tone down a bit. You're new to this forum and in one thread have managed to disrespect the MEL motors ('turds') and the forum members who have experience replacing them with another motor ('not too technical'). Your unwillingness to use the search function and take the time to read through the threads, also makes a bad impression.

Cheers,
Reijer
Last edited by ReijerLincoln on Wed Oct 05, 2011 9:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: WANT TO INSTALL A 460 385 SERIES IN MY 65' CONTINENTAL

Post by Milsteads Garage »

Read the forums. I am not going into much detail but I will give you the run down. In order for it to work right you have to use everything from a 68-69 continental. Forget about an aluminum intake, its too tall. You will have to cut a hole in your hood to get it to close. Read the thread "460 in a 63 continental" I went into detail on everything and the way this car turned out is a good indication of how badly things can go wrong when you assume other parts will easily interchange. These cars are unique to themselves, proceed with caution if you go changing things around. Also Highlander 64 what would you like to know about the ammeter gauge besides when the cardboard insulators break apart, the dash catches fire, it arcs uncontrollably because the wires are not circuit protected, when the contact breaks it kills the power to the whole car, that kind of thing?? I hooked the two wires together and never bothered with it again, too risky to have an ammeter in those cars.
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Re: WANT TO INSTALL A 460 385 SERIES IN MY 65' CONTINENTAL

Post by Milsteads Garage »

The way I see it, if you modify these cars you are just taking the easy way out and you really don't have a better all around car than an original one. These cars are too big and heavy for a race engine to make much of a difference, if you modify the suspension it is still going to handle clumsy. About the only way you will get a drastic improvement is modifying the brakes. There was nothing wrong with these cars new, things went wrong with neglect and age.
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Re: WANT TO INSTALL A 460 385 SERIES IN MY 65' CONTINENTAL

Post by 1970ls5 »

Car is going to be used to show Real Estate and take customers out on the town, has to be reliable and where it is kept in Key Biscayne the Association fines people for oil leaks on the floor, which is what it is doing now. Has also made several trips to New York to do the same job so it is back and forth, that is why I want the swap, getting better gas mileage will be a plus also.

Car stops and handles fine for what it is and we just putt around in it anyway, it does have the front disc brakes. Thanks to all the people who have commented already. Dave
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Re: WANT TO INSTALL A 460 385 SERIES IN MY 65' CONTINENTAL

Post by TonyC »

For the x-teenth time--

1. Can it be done? Yes, it can be done. There are some who have, and Mobsteel is one of the most prominent (I love the logo, too!)

2. Is it worth it? No, it isn't, at least in a practical sense. You would have a much easier time installing a 460 into a Lincoln later than 1965. You have to replace the entire drive train if you want to replace the engine with one of a different series, because the existing components are not compatible with any common-knowledge Ford components. The cost will be at least five figures, which is impractical for the average individual. It will cost less to repair and modify the existing 430 (there are few mods that can be done; but replacing the original timing gears with metal ones, and removing the mini-therms in the cylinder heads behind the water pump are good examples). A full rebuild would cost no more than $4,000, and it would not need to be done again for decades.

Bottom line: You have to really want to do that modification, because there is no other practical reason to do it for a '65 or earlier Lincoln. But MEL-series engines were among the best engines Ford ever made and are always in demand, so if you do, DO NOT send it to the scrap heap! Someone will buy it off you.

---Tony
Last edited by TonyC on Thu Oct 20, 2011 8:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: WANT TO INSTALL A 460 385 SERIES IN MY 65' CONTINENTAL

Post by 66Lincoupe »

The 462 in my '66 doesn't leak. After the rebuild it makes 365 horsepower and 510 lb ft of torque. It fits in the hole with no fuss. I weighed the costs of finding a good seasoned 385 series and building it against the cost of rebuilding and warming up my 462. It was pretty much a wash. The differences came with the modifications to the car.

If you're thinking of going modular Ford Racing has a stand alone 5.0 available (the new one, not the pushrod engine). The kit is for a manual transmission so you could adapt an E40D (non computer controlled overdrive) to the engine, switch to a 3.55 rear gear and you'd be set. Or, you could cut the top off of your car and weld it to a Town Car chassis... Crazy Project
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Re: WANT TO INSTALL A 460 385 SERIES IN MY 65' CONTINENTAL

Post by black63lincoln »

jw63 did the swap with a 460 in a 63. The car rips but It was a big chunk of change to buy the motor and get the headers custom built.

Id say if you have 10K to blow go for it.... and post some pics along the way..
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Re: WANT TO INSTALL A 460 385 SERIES IN MY 65' CONTINENTAL

Post by 1970ls5 »

I have no problem changing the engine and transmisson, actually do this all the time in my part-time business when I am not flying. Looking for an overdrive type transmission also to put behind the 460 385 series or whatever engine I settle on. If I had an aircraft tug or an old Chris-Craft I might consider using that engine there, I will not scrap it, it will be on the shelf in the shop for when I sell the car one day, as I keep saying, I am not new to this or the hobby, I am 60 and up on most things that are going on, just thought I would ask around on all the forums I just joined to get some feedback.

As far as doing the work, that is no problem, have the knowledge and expertise, just want to find out what problems others have had. Unlike that 63 Connie 460 swap, I KNOW I will not have to notch anything or massage the tunnel, the space is cavernous compared to what I am used to working on, just need the proper setback and motor mounts and a little planning and it will go in. Will not be running headers, just stock exhaust manifolds, and they will be fine.

For the guys that say keep the 430, I will, just won't be in the car. I am going for modern tech and want regular combustion chambers in the heads, not the pistons!, this 430 is a very inefficent, dirty engine for the enviorment and using a modern combustion chamber in the head will clean up the exhaust a lot and be more efficent with getting better gas mileage. Think 348/409 Chevy, it is the same style head and how many of those do you see around today, not very many and there is a good reason.

The main thing is un-leaded fuel, these engines do not have hardened valve seats and yes, you can machine and install them, but it is problems down the road when they leak or fall out of the head which they will do. Dave
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