70/71 Mark III Right hand mirror

[action]

The title is a little misleading.

When the (second) Continental Mark III was rolled out, the industry was changing from only one outside mirror to dual. By the 1970s it was more common to have a right outside mirror. So when the Mark III was introduced in 1968, the vast majority had only the left outside mirror. A right outside mirror was possible for model year 1969. Not possible at all for 1970/1971 models. And all years of Mark III had the added complexity, the exterior mirrors are mounted integral with the top peak molding. The same as slab side Lincoln Continental! That mounting did change for Mark IV but that is not the topic of this thread.

The mirror difference in Mark III??? In model year 1969 the outside mirror head was smooth chrome. For 1970 (and 71) the exterior mirror head got a make over with a Lincoln Star, off set in a corner of a squared border. Inside the the squared border the metal is brushed and outside of the border the chrome is smooth and shiny. I have always wanted a right outside mirror for my 70 Mark III.

So I am cruising through ebay. Not with a focused goal just flipping through fifth Gen Lincoln Continentals because I have delusions of getting a 1970 coupe. As I am flipping across items for some reason an exterior mirror pops up. I look further and it is a right side remote control exterior mirror. For Continental (not Continental Mark IV) the mirrors are integrated into a peak molding. The mirror head has a squared border that is a brushed finish inside with a Lincoln Star. I was fascinated at what I was looking at. It appears that Lincoln took the updated design of the 70/71 Mark III mirror head and mounted it on the next gen Continental. IN THE PEAK MOLDING! Whereas the next gen Mark (IV) removed the peak molding and the exterior mirror especially the mounting is much different.

Well this ebay mirror was only $35. I hesitated a little. Searched for pics of 5th gen Continental and Mark III. The seller like many I am guessing has little understanding of what is being sold. He said as much in the listing. Bought at an estate sale and had no idea how to test. Sold as not working. For $35 I have little at risk. I am anxious to get it.

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[frasern]

My Lincoln book was sitting beside me, so I had a look ( The cars of Lincoln Mercury / Dammann- Wagner ). On page 455, is a picture of an A H A '71 limo with a rt. mirror. also the '72 presidential conversion, p. 465.
Off topic a little, the '66 L-P had a rt. mirror, which was fender mounted. I have a theory that this is the item Lincoln made optional in '67, and that is why it is so poorly aimed, when door mounted.

[action]

I am not too worried about my purchase if it does not work out.

As to 1965 to 1972 Lincolns with right hand mirrors based on MPC -

For Mark III
It was possible to get from Ford in model year 1969 Mark III a matching right outside mirror. While rare that part number is C8LY 17696 A.
For 1970/71 Mark III a matching right outside mirror was never available. No part number.
There is no listing for a right outside mirror for Mark IV for 72

For Lincoln Continental
Model year 1965 nothing is mentioned for a right mirror
Model year 1966/67 lists a single left side remote mirror part number. No mention for right side for 1966. (The same applies to 1968/69)
Ford produced a matching right hand mirror for model year 1967. The MPC states it is only for 1867. Again rare, with a part number of C7VY 17696 A.
Model year 1970 to 1972 a matching right outside mirror was never available. No part number.

Peak mouldings were used on all Mark III models. Discontinued for Mark IV.
For Continental peak mouldings were used on all slab sides or 4th gen Continental. For 5th gen, I believe the peak moulding was deleted for 1970 to 1971. Reintroduced for 1973 and later.

If I was buying a new limo, for safety reasons I would want a right outside mirror. Don't really care that much if it matches the left outside mirror

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[action]

I am not too worried about my purchase if it does not work out.

As to 1965 to 1972 Lincolns with right hand mirrors based on MPC -

For Mark III
It was possible to get from Ford in model year 1969 Mark III a matching right outside mirror. While rare that part number is C8LY 17696 A.
For 1970/71 Mark III a matching right outside mirror was never available. No part number.
There is no listing for a right outside mirror for Mark IV for 72

For Lincoln Continental
Model year 1965 nothing is mentioned for a right mirror
Model year 1966/67 lists a single left side remote mirror part number. No mention for right side for 1966. (The same applies to 1968/69)
Ford produced a matching right hand mirror for model year 1967. The MPC states it is only for 1867. Again rare, with a part number of C7VY 17696 A.
Model year 1970 to 1972 a matching right outside mirror was never available. No part number.

Peak mouldings were used on all Mark III models. Discontinued for Mark IV.
For Continental peak mouldings were used on all slab sides or 4th gen Continental. For 5th gen, I believe the peak moulding was deleted for 1970 to 1971. Reintroduced for 1973 and later.

If I was buying a new limo, for safety reasons I would want a right outside mirror. Don't really care that much if it matches the left outside mirror

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[TonyC]

There is something I had noticed once, examining a Mark III mirror, which leads me to wonder if the right-hand issue could be addressed with relative ease. Here's my story: I had acquired a '69 Mark III mirror in 2006, primarily to cannibalize for its head piece, which was the same construction as the full-size mirror headpieces of that year (which in turn were the same for mirrors from '66 to '68), to repair damage a vandal had caused to my starboard mirror. That part worked...but I noticed something about the Mark's mirror stem. The bullet mount was not cast into the stem, like the full-size mirrors; it was a separate piece, screwed in place and held by a 7/16" nut situated inside the stem casting. I also noticed what appeared to be adjustment tabs cast into the bullet mount, suggesting that if the nut were loosened, the angle of the whole headpiece could be altered. I was never able to test that theory because I never had a 7/16" socket thin enough to fit into the stem to loosen the nut; and I'm afraid I've since lost that stem to the infamous shed fire of 2014. But, I strongly suspect that the standard-issue Mark III port-side mirror of at least that year also served as the starboard option...or could serve as a starboard option. The stems would be the same on both sides. I can't remember if the bullet mount had a slant-angle cut to it, though, which may torpedo the whole theory; such a cut would have to be reversed from the port mirror to do a starboard mirror. A straight, right-angle cut to mount the headpiece would make those mirrors reversible.

I've never examined the '70/1 Mark mirrors to see if their headpieces were also screwed onto the stems. If that were the case, that would be an easy mod addition to those Mark IIIs...except, maybe, for the emblem being on the wrong side in the starboard application.

---Tony

[jeffsf2002]

This post got me all excited because I thought maybe there really was a Unicorn! I too would really, really like to have a right hand mirror for my '70 Mark. I just rushed out of the house, jumped on my ATV and drove down to the barn where I just happen to have an extra pair (left side, right side) of Mark III doors. (you should have seen the other half's face when I dragged them out of the back of my pickup a few years ago.....ha ha). I wanted to see if the right side door had factory mounting holes under the peak moulding for mounting a mirror.....it does not. Seems pretty conclusive that there was never such thing as a right hand mirror. However.....that doesn't mean you couldn't make one if you were a pretty good metal worker. I think the hardest part would be to patch and re-cut the angled slot where the mirror base attaches to the mirror head. You would still have the issue of the Continental star being on the inboard side, and finding used left hand peak moulding to install on your right hand door. Just in case you didn't know, the '70 mirror head is smaller than the '71. Fun and games, right?

[action]

Thanks so much for your post.

I knew the 70 and 71 L outside mirror had some differences because the part number is different. Did not know the mirror head was different size.
However both are the brushed metal versus the smooth chromed OS mirror like the '69.
And I am well aware both 70 and 71 Mark never had a Rt OS mirror. That just does not exist and never did.

Drilling holes and installing the correct nut (plastic coated metal nut I believe) will not be beyond my skill set. And cutting the peak moulding may be a bit scary but I think I can handle that. The mirror I bought is for the the right side so the angle of the head mounted to the base should be good. As should the mounting to the top of the fender as that mirror is mounted in a peak moulding as well. Not too concerned with the location of the Lincoln Star. Few will know it is in the incorrect position.

I am at one disadvantage. I am in Phoenix and the Mark III is in Michigan. I am planning a trip to Michigan this year. Just have not decided on a date. Seems like the pandemic is winding down so travel should be a bit less dramatic hopefully.

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[TonyC]

I for one am hoping your purchase does work out. It really looks like that mirror was done up to fit on the starboard side...except for the etched emblem, of course. But that seems to bolster my theory about those heads being adjustable, along with the fact that there is a distinct seam between the head and the stem, meaning that they have to be separate parts held together. Have you looked inside the stem to see if there is a nut holding the parts together?

I don't think cutting the peak moulding should be that scary, as long as you're precise. Just align the mirror along the moulding on the spot you intend to eventually mount it, draw straight marks along the moulding where they would contact the base, then carefully cut through along those lines. That was what I intended to do with the starboard mirror I got for Frankenstein in 2004 (or was it '05...?); it turned out that I didn't have to, because the seller had the mouldings that went with that mirror already and added them to the package—$300 for the set was a good deal, even if the end tabs of the base were broken off (he included them, too). So all I needed to do was drill holes for the mounting screws and the adjustment control, JB Weld the base tabs, the rest fell into place.

I do, however, still intend to one day reproduce those mirrors with the design flaw eliminated. So, nobody had better try to beat me in doing that!

---Tony

[action]

Well I got the $35 mirror today. May not work.
Mounting base has a designed bulge towards the inside of the mirror mounting. I will shoot a pic later
Condition is rather nice
And yeah the Lincoln star is on the inside of the mirror head versus the outside

Since I do not have my Mark III here, I have some questions for someone with a 70 Mark III or may be any Mark III
How wide is the peak molding?
What is the dimension of the mirror head. Height and width?

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[TonyC]

Aw, no, you're right, it won't work on a Mark. I remember the shape of the peak mouldings of Mark IIIs, and that mirror doesn't have it; it looks more like it fits a full-sizer, of '72 or a bit later; the base does match the peak mouldings of those models. I didn't even think about that when I saw the pictures. I should have seen that immediately.

---Tony