'65 Apportioning Valve - Use or Bypass?

Frames, uni-bodies, suspensions, axles, springs, bushings, shocks, brakes, rotors, hubs, etc.

Moderator: Dan Szwarc

Post Reply
User avatar
whitecastle
Dedicated Enthusiast
Posts: 520
Joined: Fri Feb 05, 2010 2:29 pm
Location: Calgary, AB Canada
Contact:

'65 Apportioning Valve - Use or Bypass?

Post by whitecastle »

I only found two posts mentioning the Apportioning Valve, so hopping for a confirmation:

When completing the Dual Master Cylinder update on a 1965 Lincoln, can you still use the existing apportioning valve for the rears or do you need to bypass it?

Connecting the rear line from the new proportioning valve to the existing apportioning valve makes things a lot easier.

Thoughts?
Steve
1965 Lincoln Continental 4 Dr Sedan - 2011 - Present - Mobsteel F/R - Accuair eLevel
1965 Lincoln Continental 4 Dr Sedan - 2011 - Stripped for parts
1964 Lincoln Continental 4 Dr Sedan - 1999 - Didn't run, couldn't fix, sold
User avatar
action
LCOC Regional Director
Posts: 5221
Joined: Mon Jun 09, 2003 1:01 am
Location: Phoenix, Arizona 85008
Contact:

Re: '65 Apportioning Valve - Use or Bypass?

Post by action »

A Brake proportioning valve regulates the fluid to manage the front-to-rear bias in braking or balances the braking from front and rear. Many times this valve is in combination with others. The proportioning valve limits pressure to the rear brakes.
https://www.onallcylinders.com/2019/06/ ... to-choose/

If you are making modification to the brake system now, getting a new proportioning valve to replace a 50+ year old valve would be prudent. And an adjustable one would be even better to you can tweek the braking for your vehicle after it is installed.

Just don't ask anyone for an apportioning valve. That doesn't exist.

Action
Phoenix - Yeah, it's hot, however it's a dry heat
2006 Lincoln Navigator Limited 5.4l 3V
1996 Lincoln Mark VIII 2DR Coupe Diamond Anniversary 4.6l DOHC, 4R70W, 3.07
1970 Continental Mark III Triple Black 460 4v, C6, 2.80 (Used for Woodward Dream Cruise or just generally stored in Michigan)
1966 Lincoln Continental 4DR Convertible 462 4v, C6, 3.00
1966 Mercury Park Lane 4DR Breezeway 410 4v, C6, 2.80
User avatar
whitecastle
Dedicated Enthusiast
Posts: 520
Joined: Fri Feb 05, 2010 2:29 pm
Location: Calgary, AB Canada
Contact:

Re: '65 Apportioning Valve - Use or Bypass?

Post by whitecastle »

Thanks for your feedback. Yes - I am using a new combination proportioing valve exactly like the first one at the link you posted.

The question remains however:
Down stream from the new proportioning valve, for the rear line, can I use the exsiting apportioning valve as a handy means to couple the new rear line to the old, since it is conveniently placed just below the M/C, and has an in port, and the out port is already connected to the rear line, or is it required to remove/bypass this valve?
Attachments
Apportioning.jpg
Steve
1965 Lincoln Continental 4 Dr Sedan - 2011 - Present - Mobsteel F/R - Accuair eLevel
1965 Lincoln Continental 4 Dr Sedan - 2011 - Stripped for parts
1964 Lincoln Continental 4 Dr Sedan - 1999 - Didn't run, couldn't fix, sold
User avatar
whitecastle
Dedicated Enthusiast
Posts: 520
Joined: Fri Feb 05, 2010 2:29 pm
Location: Calgary, AB Canada
Contact:

Re: '65 Apportioning Valve - Use or Bypass?

Post by whitecastle »

Actually, looking at the diagram now, perhaps the best connection to the rear line is the coupler marked 87211-S. Whats missing in the diagram is fact that that the wheel well sheet metal runs between the U-Shaped line marked "To Rear Brakes". Perhaps if I pull the inner fender plates the coupler will be more accessible, in which case yes, I could completely bypass the existing Apportioning valve.

But it would still be easier if I could just tie into the apportioining valve.
Steve
1965 Lincoln Continental 4 Dr Sedan - 2011 - Present - Mobsteel F/R - Accuair eLevel
1965 Lincoln Continental 4 Dr Sedan - 2011 - Stripped for parts
1964 Lincoln Continental 4 Dr Sedan - 1999 - Didn't run, couldn't fix, sold
User avatar
action
LCOC Regional Director
Posts: 5221
Joined: Mon Jun 09, 2003 1:01 am
Location: Phoenix, Arizona 85008
Contact:

Re: '65 Apportioning Valve - Use or Bypass?

Post by action »

Never heard of an apportioning valve and do not know what it's function may be.
I would want to look at the shop manual to understand it's function before making a decision to include or remove.
I have both a 65 and a 66 manual. I am now very curious so i will be looking after work.

The diagram you posted shows a stand alone metering valve.
Most combination valves contain a metering valve. I would not want two metering valve in the system.

Action
Phoenix - Yeah, it's hot, however it's a dry heat
2006 Lincoln Navigator Limited 5.4l 3V
1996 Lincoln Mark VIII 2DR Coupe Diamond Anniversary 4.6l DOHC, 4R70W, 3.07
1970 Continental Mark III Triple Black 460 4v, C6, 2.80 (Used for Woodward Dream Cruise or just generally stored in Michigan)
1966 Lincoln Continental 4DR Convertible 462 4v, C6, 3.00
1966 Mercury Park Lane 4DR Breezeway 410 4v, C6, 2.80
User avatar
whitecastle
Dedicated Enthusiast
Posts: 520
Joined: Fri Feb 05, 2010 2:29 pm
Location: Calgary, AB Canada
Contact:

Re: '65 Apportioning Valve - Use or Bypass?

Post by whitecastle »

Yes - I understand the verbiage isn't very common. There wasn't much on the forum forum referencing it by name. My recollection is the manual is also very light on details or reference to this part. Also, the digaram is misleading, it suggests the location is on the passenger side, when in fact it is \below and slightly behind the M/C on the inside fender. I marked it's location in yellow on the diagram. For refernce, the above comes from section 2-17 of the manual.

But essentially in the stock setup, the rear lines comes out of the Single M/C and connects to the apportioning valve, which serves some mysterious function, and then the line continues on to the rear.
Many people talk about replacing the metering valve with the combo proportioning valve in the context of the front brakes, but I suspect it also replaces the function of this apportioning valve as well, but as I said, I'm not entirely sure, hense this thread.

But thank you for your input and curiousity!
Steve
1965 Lincoln Continental 4 Dr Sedan - 2011 - Present - Mobsteel F/R - Accuair eLevel
1965 Lincoln Continental 4 Dr Sedan - 2011 - Stripped for parts
1964 Lincoln Continental 4 Dr Sedan - 1999 - Didn't run, couldn't fix, sold
frasern
Addicted to Lincolns
Posts: 1272
Joined: Sun Oct 16, 2016 2:09 pm
Location: North Battleford, Saskatchewan
Contact:

Re: '65 Apportioning Valve - Use or Bypass?

Post by frasern »

I checked, and the same diagram in the '66 manual shows that as the proportioning valve.
Fraser Noble, Western Canada
'62 and '67 LCC.
User avatar
Dan Szwarc
Site Admin
Posts: 29775
Joined: Fri Jun 16, 2000 1:01 am
Contact:

Re: '65 Apportioning Valve - Use or Bypass?

Post by Dan Szwarc »

For the purpose of this post, proportioning valve = apportioning valve. (I think the 65 name in the service manual is a typo as this word is seldom used in any vintage car community. The definition of the root of the word apportion does not seem to fit its function to brakes. No matter. It's not relevant here.)

There are only two valves in the 65 brake system: the proportioning valve for the rear brakes and the metering valve for the front brakes. They have opposite purposes.

The proportioning valve allows brake pressure through to a set maximum then limits it to prevent lockup.
The metering valve withholds pressure to the front brakes until a minimum input is met to prevent pad-rotor drag, then allows it all through with no maximum.

The rear brake feed from the proportioning valve is split at a junction block built into the rear flex line mounted to the axle.
The front brake feed from the metering valve is split at a junction block mounted to the subframe.
Neither junction has any internal parts.

The proportioning valve has one input and one output.
The metering valve has one input and one output.

On to whitecastle's question:
When completing the Dual Master Cylinder update on a 1965 Lincoln, can you still use the existing apportioning valve for the rears or do you need to bypass it?
Yes, you must reuse the proportioning valve. Connect the rear brake output from the Dual master to the proportioning valve input the same as the single one was connected. Do not bypass it. It is required for proper rear brake operation to prevent lock up.
Connect the front brake output to the metering valve. To do so, you may need to bend new lines if you did not purchase a kit. Flush and bleed all brake lines appropriately.
whitecastle wrote:Many people talk about replacing the metering valve with the combo proportioning valve in the context of the front brakes, but I suspect it also replaces the function of this apportioning valve as well, but as I said, I'm not entirely sure, hence this thread.
You suspect correctly. Combination valves are metering valves and proportioning valves combined into one dual-purpose valve. Two inputs(front and rear), four outputs (left and right, fronts and rears).

I installed one of these on my 66. It requires much more effort because all the lines have to be custom bent up front.
User avatar
tomo
Dedicated Enthusiast
Posts: 785
Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2012 12:01 pm
Location: Palatine, Il
Contact:

Re: '65 Apportioning Valve - Use or Bypass?

Post by tomo »

You should only have one proportioning valve in the system and it is necessary to have one with disc brakes and also with dual master cylinders.
Tom O'Donnell
Palatine, IL
1953 Capri Sport Coupe
User avatar
whitecastle
Dedicated Enthusiast
Posts: 520
Joined: Fri Feb 05, 2010 2:29 pm
Location: Calgary, AB Canada
Contact:

Re: '65 Apportioning Valve - Use or Bypass?

Post by whitecastle »

Dan, thanks for your comments. Just want to clarify one thing:

I am using the same type of proportioning combination valve you have recommended in many threads (below).

If I understand your comments correctly, then yes, if using this type of valve, you would bypass the rear valve, as this new valve will replace the function of the stock one, in which case I should tie into the rear line at the connection point just after this valve, marked on the diagram as 87211-S.

Image
Steve
1965 Lincoln Continental 4 Dr Sedan - 2011 - Present - Mobsteel F/R - Accuair eLevel
1965 Lincoln Continental 4 Dr Sedan - 2011 - Stripped for parts
1964 Lincoln Continental 4 Dr Sedan - 1999 - Didn't run, couldn't fix, sold
User avatar
action
LCOC Regional Director
Posts: 5221
Joined: Mon Jun 09, 2003 1:01 am
Location: Phoenix, Arizona 85008
Contact:

Re: '65 Apportioning Valve - Use or Bypass?

Post by action »

The valve pictured appears as a combination valve. (3 valves) If so it would replace all existing valves. Meaning remove the two stock valves in your system

I may have missed it, (and I do not recall) and the valve pictured is for disc drum.
Was 65 the first year for disc drum or have you converted to disc drum?

If not there is a different valve for drum drum.

That valve also has a warning light should the system leak in either the front or rear. (Differential valve)

Action
Phoenix - Yeah, it's hot, however it's a dry heat
2006 Lincoln Navigator Limited 5.4l 3V
1996 Lincoln Mark VIII 2DR Coupe Diamond Anniversary 4.6l DOHC, 4R70W, 3.07
1970 Continental Mark III Triple Black 460 4v, C6, 2.80 (Used for Woodward Dream Cruise or just generally stored in Michigan)
1966 Lincoln Continental 4DR Convertible 462 4v, C6, 3.00
1966 Mercury Park Lane 4DR Breezeway 410 4v, C6, 2.80
User avatar
whitecastle
Dedicated Enthusiast
Posts: 520
Joined: Fri Feb 05, 2010 2:29 pm
Location: Calgary, AB Canada
Contact:

Re: '65 Apportioning Valve - Use or Bypass?

Post by whitecastle »

Thanks Action - Yes, '65 was the first year Disc/Drum was introduced.
Steve
1965 Lincoln Continental 4 Dr Sedan - 2011 - Present - Mobsteel F/R - Accuair eLevel
1965 Lincoln Continental 4 Dr Sedan - 2011 - Stripped for parts
1964 Lincoln Continental 4 Dr Sedan - 1999 - Didn't run, couldn't fix, sold
User avatar
action
LCOC Regional Director
Posts: 5221
Joined: Mon Jun 09, 2003 1:01 am
Location: Phoenix, Arizona 85008
Contact:

Re: '65 Apportioning Valve - Use or Bypass?

Post by action »

Thanks for the clarity. I have forgotten when front disc was introduced.

Action
Phoenix - Yeah, it's hot, however it's a dry heat
2006 Lincoln Navigator Limited 5.4l 3V
1996 Lincoln Mark VIII 2DR Coupe Diamond Anniversary 4.6l DOHC, 4R70W, 3.07
1970 Continental Mark III Triple Black 460 4v, C6, 2.80 (Used for Woodward Dream Cruise or just generally stored in Michigan)
1966 Lincoln Continental 4DR Convertible 462 4v, C6, 3.00
1966 Mercury Park Lane 4DR Breezeway 410 4v, C6, 2.80
User avatar
TonyC
TLFer for Life
Posts: 10690
Joined: Thu Apr 15, 2004 1:01 am
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Contact:

Re: '65 Apportioning Valve - Use or Bypass?

Post by TonyC »

Yes, '65 was the first year the mainstream makes started to give discs serious thought, and Lincoln was the first to make them standard equipment; all the others that did offer discs in '65 offered them only as optional extras (e.g., Thunderbird). Yes, there were other cars before Lincoln that also had disc brakes, like the Studebaker Avanti and the Rambler Marlin, but those could not really be considered "mainstream" makes (after all, who even remembers those cars now?). It was Lincoln's standard application that really gave the shove for disc-brake conversion across the industry.

I agree, if that Summit valve is in fact combination, then you can use that in place of the stocks and ditch the stocks. Chances are the original valves may be in need of retirement, anyway. This brings back memories of my gaffe when I tried to upgrade Frankenstein's system, and I failed to realize that I got only two of three valves needed for that upgrade, until about 2011-ish. :oops:

---Tony
"Don't believe everything you read on the Internet, just because there is a picture with a quote next to it." (Abraham Lincoln, 1866)
"Question Authority!"

1966 Continental Sedan, affectionately known as "Frankenstein" until body restoration is done (to be renamed "General Sherman" on that event)
User avatar
Dan Szwarc
Site Admin
Posts: 29775
Joined: Fri Jun 16, 2000 1:01 am
Contact:

Re: '65 Apportioning Valve - Use or Bypass?

Post by Dan Szwarc »

whitecastle wrote:Dan, thanks for your comments. Just want to clarify one thing:

I am using the same type of proportioning combination valve you have recommended in many threads (below).

If I understand your comments correctly, then yes, if using this type of valve, you would bypass the rear valve, as this new valve will replace the function of the stock one, in which case I should tie into the rear line at the connection point just after this valve, marked on the diagram as 87211-S.

Image
Yes. If you use the combination valve, you bypass or remove the stock proportioning valve.
Post Reply

Return to “Chassis, Suspension, Steering & Brakes”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests