Why air Ride ?

[papawayne]

Somebody's gotta keep us educated...Wayne

[TonyC]

"Slangity-Speak"...I like that. I think I'm going to start using that myself.

---Tony

[Chaser8686]

However, I really did like the idea of the auto-level option first employed in '68; if I came across an organ donor fitted with that option, I'd probably want to see about retrofitting it to Frankenstein.

---Tony

So i have a 68'. when i bought it 15 years ago the guy told me that it has original bags in the back but they leak. he ran a valve stem to them so they can be filled. oddly enough it works and you see the back of the car rise. They hold air for about 6/8 hours i can't remember. Well, i ran across in the repair book today that air leveling was an option then. I imagine it wasn't very popular as im sure it was $$$. All that said, do you or any of our friends have any knowledge about them? production numbers, a way to decode the VIN for it, maybe some pictures would help you tell if they are real. Perhaps there is some other tell tale sign that car was built with them? FYI my car won't be your donor car sorry...

Nice chatting,
Chase

[Chaser8686]

However, I really did like the idea of the auto-level option first employed in '68; if I came across an organ donor fitted with that option, I'd probably want to see about retrofitting it to Frankenstein.

---Tony

So i have a 68'. when i bought it 15 years ago the guy told me that it has original bags in the back but they leak. he ran a valve stem to them so they can be filled. oddly enough it works and you see the back of the car rise. They hold air for about 6/8 hours i can't remember. Well, i ran across in the repair book today that air leveling was an option then. I imagine it wasn't very popular as im sure it was $$$. All that said, do you or any of our friends have any knowledge about them? production numbers, a way to decode the VIN for it, maybe some pictures would help you tell if they are real. Perhaps there is some other tell tale sign that car was built with them? FYI my car won't be your donor car sorry...

Nice chatting,
Chase

[LithiumCobalt]

However, I really did like the idea of the auto-level option first employed in '68; if I came across an organ donor fitted with that option, I'd probably want to see about retrofitting it to Frankenstein.

---Tony

So i have a 68'. when i bought it 15 years ago the guy told me that it has original bags in the back but they leak. he ran a valve stem to them so they can be filled. oddly enough it works and you see the back of the car rise. They hold air for about 6/8 hours i can't remember. Well, i ran across in the repair book today that air leveling was an option then. I imagine it wasn't very popular as im sure it was $$$. All that said, do you or any of our friends have any knowledge about them? production numbers, a way to decode the VIN for it, maybe some pictures would help you tell if they are real. Perhaps there is some other tell tale sign that car was built with them? FYI my car won't be your donor car sorry...

Nice chatting,
Chase

If you have the original air suspension system, what you have is incredibly rare. I’ve never seen a car equipped with it or even seen pictures of the parts. If original, the compressor is operated via vacuum and is located forward of the LF wheel well.

[action]

So i have a 68'. when i bought it 15 years ago the guy told me that it has original bags in the back but they leak. he ran a valve stem to them so they can be filled. oddly enough it works and you see the back of the car rise. They hold air for about 6/8 hours i can't remember. Well, i ran across in the repair book today that air leveling was an option then. I imagine it wasn't very popular as im sure it was $$$. All that said, do you or any of our friends have any knowledge about them? production numbers, a way to decode the VIN for it, maybe some pictures would help you tell if they are real. Perhaps there is some other tell tale sign that car was built with them? FYI my car won't be your donor car sorry...

Nice chatting,
Chase

There is nothing in the serial number of a pre-1981 FLM vehicle to identify optional equipment except Engine (Many Lincoln had no optional engine) and Body style

All other options are not listed in serial number. In many pre-1981 the vehicle data plate did list codes for
Transmission
Body color
Axle ratio and type
Interior trim

As stated above the rear vehicle leveling system is a rather rare system. Not exactly air suspension as the air support is in addition to regular metal springs.
At least for model years 1970/1971 the option was available for full sized Ford/Mercury and Continental.
And true to form the Ford/Mercury system is a air bag inside a rear coil spring. Which is different than the Continental system which is an air shock called a "Superlift Shock Absorber".
Both are operated by a compressor in the front of the vehicle and that compressor IS operated from a vacuum signal.
Height control is automated with not driver input based on a height control valve in the rear of the vehicle.

I have never seen the Continental system of the period. I have seen two Ford/Mercury systems and neither one was working.
Action

[Mike]

If you post some pics of your 68 suspension and the air set up some one should be able to tell if its factory or not.

[Lincolnlovers]

I'm curious as to why one would want to convert these cars to an air ride suspension. Does the air ride system provide for better ride quality ? It sure looks like it's an expensive modification and it also appears that the required pumps and tanks take up a lot of space. Personally I don't understand what's visually appealing of a car that looks like it has a collapsed suspension system. Is it more of a regional thing ?

While other replies here have focused on load leveling, I would like to state the other reason, and that is for visual effect. Lowering a vehicle has been a polarizing subject among car enthusiasts for probably as long as there's been people hot rodding and customizing vehicles. It's generally the purists vs the custom guys. I am more of a custom guy, as I've been customizing cars and motorcycles for the last 30+ years. I appreciate cars of all types and vintages, but I love a well done custom. That ultra low slung ("slammed") sedan, cruising along, just looks good to me, as it does to many, many other people. But I know, it's not for everyone. I tend to look at restored, factory original cars, as cookie cutter. I mean, you see one, you've seen them all. But, that's what some guys love. And I love that they love their cars that much. The diversity of vehicles is what makes car shows, and the car hobby fun. At the end of the day, no matter how we feel about the "right way" to restore/customize your car, we all have the same interest, and the same passion.
Cars.
Here, it's Lincoln's. My girlfriend and I own a really nice, mostly original '65. It runs and drives beautifully. I haven't done anything to it, and as crazy as it is, I am totally enjoying this car, as factory original, as it is. So who knows. Perhaps in our small stable of cars and motorcycles, most of which have been customized to one degree or another, this car will remain original. All I know is, as I've gotten older, I've learned to appreciate them all, and to try and see them through their owners eyes. The lowered ones, as well as the originals.

[action]

Welcome to the TLF.

Just like you appreciate a well done custom car, I would suggest that a well done OE (factory) restoration is anything but cookie cutter. The opinion that a bone stock original restoration is a cookie cutter is likely to have come from the new car market. Let me explain.

A very long time ago I works at a used car lot that was part of a brand X new car dealership. The used car manager was my cousin, so I had an "in" at the used car lot. I learned a lot from my cousin. (And a few things I would have been OK not knowing) One of the things he said, and it has been repeated all over the industry is, "They are only new once". My cousin had a saying that went after that, and the saying was they are all one of a kind after they are new. Because a new car can be ordered anyway you want and everyone that orders a new car has the same opportunity to place an order. So a number of new cars can be ordered the same. However a used car is a one of a kind!

The proof of that is the business of Kevin Marti, of the Marti Report fame. https://www.martiauto.com/index.cfm He has monetized the one of a kind used car or at least one of a few with the data he has from new Ford vehicle invoices from the late 1960s and later. A customer sends in a VIN and gets a report that the FLM vehicle you have is "One of XXX" with that engine, transmission, color, trim and options. The company may have built thousands of your year and model. After you factor in all of the optional equipment including color and trim, there isn't so many of those.

My cousin's point of view as a used car manager who's job it was to appraise a trade in was based on previous owner's experience (use and maintenance) that a car is no longer the same as any other car on the road. Even if the car is a few years old and there are two identical ones. The previous owner maintained it (or did not) to a level that it is unique. Even without considering the optional equipment. Factor in 50 years of various use and care and that factory original is getting very close to being a one of a kind, if it isn't already. But that is one persons point of view.

My opinion regarding the appeal of a modified car, isn't so much in what it looks like, (and I realize that IS the point with some modifications) it is getting a modified car to operate on the road. If parts come from other years and may be other makes, fixing it later becomes a problem especially if the person that did the modification is no longer around. Years later there is no shop manual for that kind of modification unless the PO documented what they did. If they did not then the vehicle may have to be modified again! Modifying a vehicle is far more expensive than maintaining or repairing the original design. All that assumes the person/company did the modifications to a road worthy standard. I have seen some modifications that were basically an accident waiting to happen as the modifier had no clue as to what was safe and what was not. I was scared for the current owner to drive that vehicle any more.

Regarding lowered cars, that is a rather limited application. The use being riding low and slow. Slow being the operative word. In my opinion that kind of car is more art than a vehicle to be used on the street much. Likely the same as a decades old 7 figure value car with low miles, that is bought and sold as collections or art work. Similar to a low rider. Few vehicles that a person paid 7 figures for are driven to any degree. You don't drive to the Circle K in a 1967 Corvette L88 Coupe that you just parted with $2.6+ mill. Most likely you bought for an investment. And maybe you are willing to show it. Drive it on the street? Are you nuts?
https://sportscardigest.com/2021-mecum- ... n-results/
Similar to a car that looks pretty because it has been lowered. (Or even just modified) You can cruise at slow speeds. Or park it for everyone to see it. Even make it go up and down while parked. Driving faster than 35 may be uncomfortable, require buying tires a lot or be unstable at higher speeds. And if all of that can be overcome, it will come at a high cost to be done correctly. Not many rides have been done that way as there is no standard for vehicle modification. Especially if the only consideration is appearance.

For anyone that has done or will do that kind of modification, it is your car, do as you please. Don't let anyone talk you out of what it is that you want to do. But don't expect others to want the same or want to buy the same. After all it is truely a one of a kind. And so is James Dean's Porsche.

Action

[Lincolnlovers]

Very in depth response, so much for me to respond to, lol. Thanks for the welcome. I definitely appreciate the insight from yourself and the other Lincoln enthusiasts. This is my first Lincoln, so I'm sure the forum will be very useful and informative.
Anyway, regarding "cookie cutter"; I am very aware of manufacturer, and dealer options. Many years ago I worked in a Mustang restoration shop. Through osmosis, I became very aware of how endless the configurations were. Among the purists, they loved the technical aspects and the tiny details and differences between each individual car. But, overall, with the exception of powerplant/power train options, the cars all look and feel the same, with color being the main difference. Walking into a show, and there being rows and rows of cars that all look relatively the same, just different colors, looked pretty cookie cutter to me. But I was young and pretty opinionated (read naive, uneducated, with little life experience, lol) But wow, did those customs stand out to me! All different designs and configurations. You weren't really hemmed in by a standard the factory or dealer set. If you were talented enough (or had enough money) you could create something that was original, and had function.
You are correct, and I learned very quickly, that there is a lot out there that arent user friendly, uncomfortable, even dangerous. But over the years customizing, suspension, and air ride specifically, has been refined and there are many applications where it works well. The main reason for air ride was to make driving low, or the low look, more user friendly and less dangerous. You could raise the vehicle to a decent ride height so as to avoid obstacles and dragging, scraping, or rubbing. This is not a new concept, I mean, adjustable suspension has been around quite a long time. I'm sure you're familiar with Citroën, and their Hydropneumatic suspensions from the mid 50's. As discussed earlier in this thread, Lincoln has had air assist and Adjustable suspension on different models over the years. (Incidentally, back in the mid 90's, my first truck with air suspension, had a salvaged compressor from a towncar) Adjustable suspension is now available on a great many vehicles, from the factory, and the custom builders enfluence in this played no small part.
The fact is that a lower center of gravity generally helps in stability, handling, and mileage. There's a reason race cars are low. But low poses problems in off track, real world applications. So adjustable suspension is a solution to that problem. And just because a vehicle sets low, doesn't mean it is slow and useless. My buddy has a Dually and it will haul everything it was capable of, with factory suspension, and then some. He can do it 2" off the ground, or pretty darn near factory height. He's not gonna take it off road, but then he has a 4x4 to get dirty if he needs to, so he's covered, lol.

But again, I enjoy it all. It all has a place, and it all appeals to one person or another. We all have our preferences. Some like to keep them original, and others like to cut them up. Our world would be boring if we could only choose one way to enjoy our cars.

I see by your signature, you live in Phoenix? You must not be a stranger to low trucks and cars, as Phoenix is a mecca for them as well as customizers. You go to good guys there at Westworld? Lots and lots of customs rolling through there.

[action]

I have been to Good Guys a number of years ago. There will be 2 events they will do for the rest of this year, one is this month and one in November. Since it has been a long time I just might go again. Just to look at what is done. However much of the local cars I can see for free every Saturday. That location is a shopping center in Scottsdale. (Pavillions) If the weather is nice two to five hundred cars come out and hang. The businesses in the center have come to appreciate the traffic especially the McDonalds as sales are high when there is good turn out.

And you are correct, my location is a mecca for car collectors. Especially during a normal auction week, which has not occurred since 2019. I believe it was 2017 or 2018 I saw on on the road during that special week in January (actually it was a Saturday when high $ rides goes across the block) a Lamborghini, a Bugatti Veyron, a 65 or 66 Shelby Mustang GT and in the air a P51 fly over head. The Scottsdale air park is not far away from the Barrett Auction site. I nearly wet myself that morning. And I had no clue about the Bugatti. I new it was something unique and snapped a shot from my car so I could look it up later. BTW the Lambo and the Veyron were kind of street racing. One following the other at high rates of speed weaving in and out of traffic. I could only keep up for a mile or two with my Navigator. The stop lights helped and after awhile they lost me. Later I discovered the price tag to own one. Not just buy one but to maintain one. At the time, tires for the Veyron were $25,000 a copy and they had to be special ordered from France.

As far as air ride, the top two vehicles in my signature have air ride on all four corners. And they were built that way. It isn't an unfamiliar concept at least for me. However slamming is out of my experience.

Action

[JimA]

This is the best discussion I've seen of the original vs custom controversy. I can see the value of an old car restored to factory condition. Some love the competition for most original or just owning a factory-correct classic. Look at the Lincoln Continental Owners Club website and you'll see that's what it's all about.

[/quote]The Lincoln and Continental Owners Club is dedicated to the preservation and restoration of all Lincolns, Lincoln Continentals, and Continentals.[/quote]

Took me a little while to realize the "restoration" meant to ORIGINAL condition. I thought I restored my '72 Maverick Sprint when I spent 2 years doing rust repair, re-doing the interior (including Camaro buckets with Mustang-like Sprint upholstery), installing a 347 stroker, front discs, Mach 1 rear spoiler, Cragers, repaint, etc. but learned that's NOT a restoration. It is, however, the fastest car I've ever owned.

I agree, if resale value or broad appeal is your concern originality is the way to go. Very few customizations enhance resale value.

Personally, I like to improve the function and performance of my old cars while maintaining close to original appearance. My primary motivation is having a car that is FUN to DRIVE. Never expect to make money or even break even on resale. For me, they're hobbies, not investments, and most hobbies cost money. Bet I spend a lot less on my car hobby than a lot of golfers spend on theirs.

Anyway, to each his/her own. I love 'em all.

[Lincolnlovers]

For me, they're hobbies, not investments, and most hobbies cost money.

Man, you summed it up well there. Owning a custom/resto-mod shop and having customers come in to get quotes, and then get upset when the cost to metal finish, bodywork, and paint their car "cost more than the car is worth"... I always told them, "if you're looking at this car as a monetary investment, you've bought the wrong car. Look at it as an investment in your life, like a vacation cruise. You'll never get your money back, but the joy, bonding, and friendships you make along the way make it an experience you'll cherish for the test of your life.

Nice resto-mod Maverick

[Lincolnlovers]

I have been to Good Guys a number of years ago. There will be 2 events they will do for the rest of this year, one is this month and one in November. Since it has been a long time I just might go again. Just to look at what is done. However much of the local cars I can see for free every Saturday. That location is a shopping center in Scottsdale. (Pavillions) If the weather is nice two to five hundred cars come out and hang. The businesses in the center have come to appreciate the traffic especially the McDonalds as sales are high when there is good turn out.

And you are correct, my location is a mecca for car collectors. Especially during a normal auction week, which has not occurred since 2019. I believe it was 2017 or 2018 I saw on on the road during that special week in January (actually it was a Saturday when high $ rides goes across the block) a Lamborghini, a Bugatti Veyron, a 65 or 66 Shelby Mustang GT and in the air a P51 fly over head. The Scottsdale air park is not far away from the Barrett Auction site. I nearly wet myself that morning. And I had no clue about the Bugatti. I new it was something unique and snapped a shot from my car so I could look it up later. BTW the Lambo and the Veyron were kind of street racing. One following the other at high rates of speed weaving in and out of traffic. I could only keep up for a mile or two with my Navigator. The stop lights helped and after awhile they lost me. Later I discovered the price tag to own one. Not just buy one but to maintain one. At the time, tires for the Veyron were $25,000 a copy and they had to be special ordered from France.

As far as air ride, the top two vehicles in my signature have air ride on all four corners. And they were built that way. It isn't an unfamiliar concept at least for me. However slamming is out of my experience.

Action

I've been to the Pavilions more times than I can count. Lots of fun, especially for free. Quite the eclectic collection of vehicles too. Been to all the auctions, Russo and Steele, BJ, Mecum. Worked on a lot of cars that have run through those auctions, some bringing good money. Even been on stage at BJ during the auctioning of one of our cars we built for charity. Arizona is a great place for car and motorcycle enthusiasts, for sure. I miss living there.

[action]

I have lived in Phoenix since 1990.
Much has changed in that time. So have classic cars and so has the restoration or modification process.
In some ways it is like life, there is a lot more choices and technology has changed a lot.

However the Valley of the Sun like many places is stacking the cards against the hobbiest. No matter what your flavor. Governments on local levels are making it more costly to do business. And I am aware of a couple businesses locally that have sold their name and business and gotten out.
While parts are being reproduced that never were in the past and finding used parts is far easier than the local wrecking yard or a fellow club member.
It is getting expensive. Both for the hobby and to live here. (And likely everywhere else)
I do not mean for the owner that is looking for a quality job on their ride and a good place to store it. Using the same standard for both the cost of doing both (having a classic car and owning Real Estate here) is starting or has been increasing faster than most other market sectors.

Which leaves people that want to get started in cars and homes at a disadvantage, at least in my opinion.
I have what I want in cars. (and Real Estate) Well I could always have more cars as I am addicted. But likely in a few years I am taking my cars and moving away.
There far cheaper Real Estate and places outside of Maricopa county that just don't have the regulation.

So much for my rant.

Action