'63 LCC - Convertible Top Project

Anything that pertains only to a convertible goes here. Such as: Top material, pads, mechanism, hydraulic pumps, switch and relay mechanisms, latches, etc.

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mge825y
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'63 LCC - Convertible Top Project

Post by mge825y »

Back before the holidays, I had a nice conversation with John Cashman by phone about many things, including my convertible top. He confirmed my plans to buy all new lines, lifts and a high volume pump from Hydro-e-lectric. So I did and I have them in a box in my garage. I bought the 3 solenoids just for good measure.

I had a similar conversation with John Brewer and I've started sending him switches and relays to test and clean (and rebuild or replace as needed).

So I'm too the point now where it's time to start taking off the old components and replacing them with the new ones. To those that have been down this path before, any good advice on how to approach this job or where to start? Also would like to find so good resources (reading or video material) to study up on before starting the journey.


Thanks!

Mark
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Re: '63 LCC - Convertible Top Project

Post by LC67Vert »

You did not mention whether the top is working now. If it is working then I suggest you relace only one system at a time and test it before moving on to the next system. Also I would only do this job with a Lincoln shop manual to use as a reference.
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Re: '63 LCC - Convertible Top Project

Post by mge825y »

LC67Vert - Thanks for your note. The short answer is that no, the top is not working. But I do have the shop manuals and supplements - including the convertible top service manual.

The long answer is that the car was stored in a barn for the past 20 years in Texas after the original owner passed away. The car was placed under a tarp with the top down. And while it was stored in the barn without conditioned air, all the lifts eventually dumped their hydraulic fluid. But all the components are there. I did energize the system and it did try to go thru some of the cycles. So figured the original pump, solenoids, lifts and lines had been cooking in the heat and probably were beyond rebuilding. So decided to replace with new.

Anyway, just looking for tips from those that have replaced these components and any advice they may have on what to do or what not to do.

Thanks

Mark
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Re: '63 LCC - Convertible Top Project

Post by defrang »

I did this on my 65 about 2 years ago. One line at a time. One solenoid at a time.... Just so I would not make a mistake and question which line went where. Once I had it all replaced and reconnected, I filled with type F and then cycled the pump many times. Refilling the reservoir on the pump after every other cycle til full. A two person job.
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Re: '63 LCC - Convertible Top Project

Post by LC67Vert »

Good to hear you have a shop manual as a reference. I would fix each system associated with a segment of the top down process based on the order it is presented in the shop manual. Starting with the top up, first is the deck lid unlock and open segment and I would get all components working properly for this segment. Then I would move on to the upper back panel segment to make sure it opens properly. Next I would get the top unlock and open segment working properly. The last step is getting the deck lid to close and lock after the top has been lowered into the trunk. All of this testing has to be then done in reverse, that is putting the top up, and then you're done. This can be a time consuming process but really worthwhile to see it operating properly when finished.
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Re: '63 LCC - Convertible Top Project

Post by mge825y »

Well - looks like I'll be able to finally get some time this weekend to install the new top motor, lines, solenoids and lifts. I went back through the box of new components received from Hydro-E-Lectric. The components look solid but was really surprised there were no instructions except for a single piece of paper that says to bleed the lines you need to hot wire the respective solenoids for the deck or the top, and the pump. But they don't explain how.

So I'm curious how to do this and have scoured the forum for posts. To hotwire the pump - one member shared how they connected two sets of jumper cables (for the car length) with one end connected to the positive battery terminal. Do you disconnect the pump from the car's wiring harness and connect the pump's red wire lead to the jumper cable positive connection?

For the solenoid - I know the one closest to the rear is for the deck lid and the other 2 are for the top. Each solenoid only has the one lead. So do you disconnect it from the car's wiring harness connector and connect the battery cable to the one solenoid wire?

So if I want to move the deck lifts up and down to bleed the lines, do you hotwire both the one solenoid and the motor together at the same time?

Curious how this works - Thanks for any help you can provide

Mark
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Re: '63 LCC - Convertible Top Project

Post by JAB »

Mark,
With a good battery installed, the top relay bank in the right rear is constantly hot.
At the forward edge of the relay bank, there are two breakers that are hot. Grab power there at one of the posts.

Us a heavy gauge jumper wire with alligator clips at either end. Make it about two feet long. We will call this the JUMPER WIRE
Set up a second wire harness that has two leads with female bullet connectors to affix to two solenoids.
That same harness will have another wire /alligator clip that will allow connection to either the male or female connector on the hydraulic motor plug.
That same harness will have another wire that will be connected to the JUMPER WIRE providing power from the breaker post. We will call this the JUMPER HARNESS
Using a wire crimping tool available at any auto parts store makes creating these harnesses easy.

You now have a harness setup that will allow jumping the motor and solenoids at the same time.

Starting with the deck lid, prop up the lid with a broom handle.
Pull the upper pins from the deck lid hydraulic cylinders, and lower the cylinders so that they are clear of the attachment points.

Take the retention nuts off the hydraulic motor, move it so that the fill hole is straight up. Use a BUNGY CORD to hold it in place against the quarter panel. Remove the plug, and fill with type f transmission fluid.
Connect the JUMPER HARNESS to the rear most solenoid, and the motor plug (yellow is up and red is down)
Connect the jumper wire to the jumper harness.
When you connect the jumper wire to the power source, this will activate the solenoid and motor at the same time, and the deck cylinders will start to move after fluid has started to enter them.
AS SOON AS THE CYLINDERS HAVE REACHED AN UP OR DOWN LIMIT, STOP PROVIDING POWER. Continuing to run the top motor when the cylinders are at their limits will damage the motor.

Alternate between extending and retracting the cylinders.
Refill hydraulic fluid once you hear it suck dry at the motor fill point.

The solenoids get extremely hot after several cycles. Allow them to cool for a couple of minutes between fluid refills.

If you run the cylinders through 7 in/out cycles, this should finish the bleed.
Disconnect from the power source.

Now reconnect the deck lid cylinders (you will probably need to run the motor again to get them lined up for installing the pins.)

Now disconnect the top cylinder pins in the trunk. Raise them off the top frame a little so that running the cylinder shafts in and out will clear the frame.

Connect the jumper harness to the two rear most solenoids and the motor.

Repeat the whole process outlined for the deck lid above.

The final fill level for the hydraulic fluid should be no higher than about 2 inches below the fill hole. Overfilling will result in damage to the pump.

Feel free to call me if you have questions.

John Brewer
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Re: '63 LCC - Convertible Top Project

Post by mge825y »

Thank you John - that's what I call good instructions!
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Re: '63 LCC - Convertible Top Project

Post by LC67Vert »

Whenever I use a jumper cable I make sure I have a fuse in the circuit just in case the hot lead touches something by accident, or if I use it to test an electric motor which happens to be bad and is shorted open. This may save you from starting a fire.
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Re: '63 LCC - Convertible Top Project

Post by mge825y »

Another small wrinkle - The replacement solenoids from Hydro-E-Lectric are 1/4" larger in diameter than the original ones on my '63 LCC. That means the metal mounting bracket or "P-Clamp" doesn't fit. So I am trying to track down a P-Clamp that does fit..... What would these projects be without all the interesting challenges!

If someone has already solved for this problem before, please share how.

Thanks!

Mark
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Re: '63 LCC - Convertible Top Project

Post by JAB »

Replacing the solenoids is not usually required.

The hydraulic solenoids are pretty robust, and seldom fail.
Common problems relate to a poor seal when the solenoid is not activated. The solenoid can get dirty or gunked up on the interior. Commonly, when you activate the solenoid, a very light click indicates that the solenoid is "gunked up" inside.

To service them, ...
-activate the solenoid, then spray Brake-Kleen or similar into the body.
-clear the solvent by blowing out the "open" solenoid"
-repeat (always empty onto a white paper towel. This will help you determine when the fluid is coming out clean.
-once you feel it is clean, retest by "clicking" the solenoid. You will usually get a much more solid clunk after cleaning.
-reinstall.

NOTE- Activating the solenoid introduces the possibility of a spark. Doing this job involves using solvent, which presents a fire hazard. Always perform this work out in the open, away from anything else flammable. Be careful, and do not keep any soaked rags nearby. Do not do this job in the trunk of your Lincoln.

John
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Re: '63 LCC - Convertible Top Project

Post by mge825y »

John B. - I made some progress today. I fabricated the jumper hotwire harness that you described and used it to bleed the hydraulic lifts.

Per your instructions, I connected the harness to the 2 solenoids for the top cylinders, and connected power to the pump. Hot wire to the Yellow wire on the pump = up, Hot wire to the Red wire on the pump = down. That works perfectly.

But when I connect the harness to power the 1 solenoid for the deck (the solenoid closest to the back bumper), and I jump power to the pump, I get the opposite effect. The Red wire moves the lift up and the yellow wire moves it down.

Not sure why that happens. Only thing I can think of is - on this solenoid for the rear deck, does it matter which of the 2 ports on the solenoid that you connect to the line to the lifts? Could I reverse how the lines are connected and make it work with Yellow = Up and Red = Down?

Always fun isn't it? :grin:

Mark
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Re: '63 LCC - Convertible Top Project

Post by JAB »

Mark,
The solenoids work the same either way. They are simply an open/close valve.
Given that I am not perfect (like John Cashman (hey John!), I may not have the red/yellow relationship worked out exactly.
Don't worry about it. Just get them bled. Thats probably the way the deck works.
John BREWER
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Re: '63 LCC - Convertible Top Project

Post by bluestang65 »

Are the solenoids ok to use with type F once cleaned out as you recommended, John?
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Re: '63 LCC - Convertible Top Project

Post by JAB »

Yes. That is the way to go.

John
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