65 top is out of sync

[mlea]

I just installed new header weatherstripping on my convertible top. This caused the limit switch to stay open when the top contacted the header. I hit the switch with my finger to see if that would bring the decklid down. It didn't, so I retracted the top instead of leaving it up. Once it retracted into the trunk, the flap retracted and the decklid closed onto the top. The closed flap is resting on the retracted top and the decklid is 8 inches from being closed. The top switch will only turn the screw motors but not move anything else. How do I get everything back in sync?

[Dan Szwarc]

Call John Cashman or John Brewer.

[JAB]

I think that when you pressed down on the top up limit switch in the header (and then hit the top control switch to bring the deck lid down), the system thought the top was up, so the header lock hooks closed. This is telling the system that the top is in the up and locked position.
You need to get these locks to retract.
To do this...
- go behind the back seat and jump the deck lid up relay to bring the deck lid to vertical. (this relay is one of the pair of relays behind the back seat off to the passenger side of the seat back area. The one closest to the passenger door is the deck up relay.) Jump the center hot female spade slot to both spades on the right side of the relay. Stop providing power from the relay plug as soon as the deck lid is vertical (and the deck lid up switch has been depressed)
-now see if the extended hooks are visible from the lowest level of the stacked top frame.
- see if you can access the top unlock relay (upper row of top relays, and closest one to the front of the car). If so, pull the plug, and jump from the female center spade slot (hot) to the single rearmost female spade slot on that plug. This will retract the hooks.
- then do the same thing with the flipper lid up relay, which is in the top row of relays next to the top unlock relay you just dealt with. Stop the flipper lid once it has gone to its vertical position.
- plug both relays back in, making sure that all of the spades seat properly.

Now the system should be back in sequence, and activating the top switch will bring the top back out of the trunk.

If you could not access the top unlock and flipper up relay, then you can manually raise the flipper by pulling the plug on the flipper motor and providing ground to black and hot to yellow.
With the flipper up you may be able to simply hit the top control switch to bring the top out of the trunk.

Of course you will still need to resolve the problem with the header weatherstrip.

Call if you have questions or require further detail.

John Brewer
303 562-8368

[wmaloney]

Thank you for the thorough explanation John. I monitor and then bookmark all of these convertible top issues and solutions as my little reference library for when my time comes with a top disaster. But I recognize that I most likely will end up calling you anyway!

[mlea]

That worked! Once the deck lid was up, I climbed into the trunk and pulled the limit switch out of the header. The sequence is back to normal. If anyone needs a top to windshield weatherstrip, I've got one. It's not worth the adjustments I'll have to make. I never drive with the top up, anyway.

[RaiderTom]

Apologies for picking up this thread after so long, but we were recently able to follow John' Brewer's helpful advice and ALMOST get the top into sync, but we fell just a bit short. The original problem is common to 60's convertibles I've come to learn. The little nylon finger that tells the top it's ready to lock into the windshield got stuck. As a result, the whole mechanism got out of sync. After the top retracted into the trunk, the deck flap folded under then the deck folded down and then refused to go any farther. We removed the rear seat and were able to raise the deck lid and then, per John's advice and further input from John Cashman, we got the top back up but the top locks are out (in the lock position) so we cannot finish that part of the cycle. Does anyone have any tips on how to retract the top locks. We've tried the top unlock relay but it's not working. We are concerned that some of the relays have gone bad and I'm considering replacing them. Any guidance is appreciated. And as you can tell from this description, I'm no mechanic so detailed suggestions with all the steps are extremely appreciated.

[RMAENV]

Not sure how the header on a 65 compares with my 66 but; the 66 has 2 top lock/unlock switches. the bar moves back and forth. the switches work opposite, meaning when one is open the other is closed or easier to picture the bar pushes the switch button in on one side and releases the switch button on the other. I had the same issues with the lock unlock and the switch that was suppose to be released when locking (I believe it was the passenger side did not release. The button was stuck in when the bar released it. pulled it out, shot it with electrical cleaner to lube it up tested it (pushed button in and made sure it released) and done!!!

Other possibility is that you have 2 wires from each of these switches running through your top. Over the years from the top opening and closing and folding and bending the wires you could have broken one. Best to give one of the John's (Brewer or Cashman) a call as they are much more familiar with what it under a 65 header than I am. On the 66 I believe there are 8 screws or so to remove the header panel to see what is working and what is not.

BTW when the top hits the header can you her the motor move the bar? The motor can be your problem also. It is pretty loud so you can't miss it. It engages when the top comes down on the plastic switch in the header. Same motor as is on you deck lid is in the header. This is the motor that moves the bars to open and close the switches.

Best to give

[JAB]

Raidertom,
You should be able to jumper the relay plug for the top unlock to accomplish this.
Since you indicate that this does not work, you may have a broken wire in the top harness, or the top lock motor may be shot.
To overcome this, put the top up about three feet above the windshield.
Remove the screws holding on the #1 bow cover (front bow of the top that comes in contact with the header when the top is up)
There are probably 6 screws along the front face. There are another 4 screws holding the rear of this cover just below the top cloth.
Because you have brought the top back a little, the top cloth is relaxed, and you can get a shorty Phillips screwdriver in to remove these screws.
This space is very tight, so raise the top enough to really loosen the cloth.
Once the cover is removed, find the header lock motor and its wire harness. The wire harness will go over into one corner of the #1 bow.
The plug for the harness is tucked just inside the hole at the corner. Get your fingers between the top cloth and top frame at that point, locate the plug and push it out of the hole.
Once it is out, unplug it and jump the motor. Apply power to the red or yellow wire (one locks and one unlocks)
If the motor will not run, then manually turn the motor at the rubber drive link that ties the motor to the lock/unlock transmission.
If the motor is bad, call me to get a good one.
If you need further help give me a call.
John Brewer
Brewer Classic Lincoln
Convertible Top Repair and Consulting