Why would a '69 LCS A/C take a few miles to start cooling?

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MFE
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Why would a '69 LCS A/C take a few miles to start cooling?

Post by MFE »

460 in a '69 Continental sedan. When I bought the car a few hundred miles ago in February, it took maybe 30-60 seconds for it to start blowing cold air, but once it did, the temp was quite good. I have only sporadically used the A/C since then, maybe 4-5 times, but each time I used it, it took longer for it to blow cold. The last time I ran it, it took a good 3-5 minutes before it suddenly started blowing cold. And again, each time it did, it blew comfortably cold.

As a (possibly) side note, the compressor started to fail the last time I used the A/C, so I'll be changing that, but what else might cause this kind of problem? In my experience, something like a low charge doesn't act like this, it's more likely to just not blow very cold, if it's cool at all. This does blow cold, just taking longer and longer to get there.
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Re: Why would a '69 LCS A/C take a few miles to start coolin

Post by TonyC »

Barring any other system malfunctions, and I would have the whole system checked for other failures if I were you, I have only one question: Do you have the manual-control setup or the automatic? I'm guessing the latter, which was the far-more-popular A/C option. Depending on the weather conditions, it could take as fast as half a minute or as slow as 10 minutes for the system to blow cold air. In fact, you could be suffering the greenhouse effect in your car and the system will do what it chooses to do: If it senses the ambient temperature of the cab to be at the set temperature, it will only maintain that temperature and nothing else; so, for example, the car's sensors may read it at being 65º, yet you are cooking to death as the sun's radiation bakes your skin. That's intrinsic to the design of the automatic setup, and there is no way to manually override the automatic operation. If you had the manual-control option, then such a delay would easily indicate a malfunction in the system: Failing component, leak, etc.

Most people focus on the compressor as the source of trouble, or maybe a leaky line (although I have my doubts about anyone being aware of that metering valve in the high-pressure lines which tends to seize and block freon flow). Not so many, but still some, may think of the condenser and receiver-dryer. Hardly anyone ever thinks of the evaporator core, which is just as prone to holes as any other component in the system. Unfortunately, the evaporator core is the worst component to suffer a malfunction; nobody makes any reproduction cores. They ought to, but they don't.

---Tony
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Re: Why would a '69 LCS A/C take a few miles to start coolin

Post by action »

Likely it is the compressor. Because it is weak, it does not build the pressure necessary to get a cold charge right away. Eventually it gets there.
I would rule out most of the things above because you state the system will get cold and stay there.
It just takes some time for the weak compressor to get the pressure high enough.

Getting pressures after installing a gauge set would confirm.

If that is the cause fixing sooner, rather than later is recommended. A compressor that comes apart can scatter metal in the system. Getting that metal out isn't the easiest to do.

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Re: Why would a '69 LCS A/C take a few miles to start coolin

Post by MFE »

Thanks guys. Yes, it's an Automatic control system, but I won't be using it at all until I address the compressor.
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Re: Why would a '69 LCS A/C take a few miles to start coolin

Post by TonyC »

Okay, then; yes, definitely address the compressor, as that is the primary moving component in the system. I also strongly advise that, once that has been addressed, have the rest of the system checked to make sure it's sealed. All the other engine-bay components I mentioned have a tendency to wear down and out over time, and if they haven't been replaced any time recently in the past, they need to be watched. Most of the parts can be had new when needed, but the evaporator core cannot be, which makes it the worst component to deal with.

Of course, there is a way to determine whether the core is toasted: If you smell the odor of mineral oil through the vents, that's a telltale sign. I learned that about 12 years ago, last time I tried to get my A/C up and running. Although I got a used core from LincolnLand, I've made no other progress since then.

---Tony
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Re: Why would a '69 LCS A/C take a few miles to start coolin

Post by action »

Not that you need an evaporator, however it looks like these are being reproduced.
Even if they were not, getting one made is possible as long as an old one is available for a pattern.

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1966 Mercury Park Lane 4DR Breezeway 410 4v, C6, 2.80
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Re: Why would a '69 LCS A/C take a few miles to start coolin

Post by TonyC »

They are?? Wow, that's news to me! Ignernt as this may sound, I'd like to know who is reproducing them, or at least where to go to have one made. To be honest, I have no idea what condition the one from LincolnLand is in; I bought it about nine years ago, as-is, never checked or tested, so for all I know that one could be unusable. I also happen to have an extra evaporator which I yanked from an organ donor about three years ago, so besides the LincolnLand core that's installed I have one on hand to serve as a pattern.

Hopefully, that is not something MFE has to deal with right now; he already has his hands full with the compressor...and possibly the condenser and receiver, although those I know can be had new.

---Tony
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Re: Why would a '69 LCS A/C take a few miles to start coolin

Post by action »

Ebay is showing a number of listings for 69 Continental like this one
https://www.ebay.com/itm/233722237377?c ... c78ddbef3b

However the listings are questionable at least in my opinion. Form the MPC
1965 and earlier has a C4VY number
66 to 68 w/ 462 is a C6VY number
68 to 69 w/ 460 is a C8VY
With the body change for 1970 there is a 70 to at least 72 part
Some of the listings don't show the difference

Mark Series is totally different and very available.

And in Phoenix there is a shop here that has connection to a lot of odd applications. Mostly because they work a lot of fleet vehicles, And have the ability to make condensers and evaporators. They can make hoses with mufflers too but I use a different shop for that. Either they need a pattern or need to have done it in the past, One of those dingy shops that has been open for ever and you know walking in that they know their stuff

So much for being off topic

Action
Phoenix - Yeah, it's hot, however it's a dry heat
2006 Lincoln Navigator Limited 5.4l 3V
1996 Lincoln Mark VIII 2DR Coupe Diamond Anniversary 4.6l DOHC, 4R70W, 3.07
1970 Continental Mark III Triple Black 460 4v, C6, 2.80 (Used for Woodward Dream Cruise or just generally stored in Michigan)
1966 Lincoln Continental 4DR Convertible 462 4v, C6, 3.00
1966 Mercury Park Lane 4DR Breezeway 410 4v, C6, 2.80
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Re: Why would a '69 LCS A/C take a few miles to start coolin

Post by RMAENV »

I would be replacing the expansion valve when I did the compressor also. Thinking it might be clogged now. Would also be a reason why cold air is slow. Not an A/c expert here. I sent my compressor to Classic Auto Air in Tampa for a rebuild along with the receiver/drier. They rebuilt the compressor, upgraded the receiver/drier to with a new bag to accept either R-12 or 134, and the also had the very difficult to find (at the time) 66 Lincoln expansion valve. Here is the website... https://www.classicautoair.com/meet-the ... a-florida/

Here is their catalog. https://www.classicautoair.com/download-catalog/
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Re: Why would a '69 LCS A/C take a few miles to start coolin

Post by MFE »

RMAENV wrote:
Here is their catalog. https://www.classicautoair.com/download-catalog/
I've seen their catalog linked here before, but it doesn't have any listings for Lincolns, what parts did you substitute?
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Re: Why would a '69 LCS A/C take a few miles to start coolin

Post by TonyC »

Ebay is showing a number of listings for 69 Continental like this one
https://www.ebay.com/itm/233722237377?c ... c78ddbef3b
:shock: OMG...! That's it! That is exactly what the '66—9 evaporators look like! So, finally, somebody is reproducing them! This is one of the few times that I'm glad to be proven wrong! :dance: I wouldn't be concerned about the differences in part numbers the MPC may show; if anything they may indicate ever-so-slight modifications to improve the overall performance or maybe show examples that were made with more cost-effective tooling. More often than not, from my observations of MPC listings, they make no difference in fitting. On rare occasions they will, but I've noticed no such difference in the majority of cases where there are few core changes in a car's design.

I am saving that listing, because I very much intend to get a brand-new one now that I know I can. That will leave only the high- and low-pressure lines to be acquired...which I intend to do the next time I drive down to Florida to visit my mother. I want to pay a visit to the antique-air shop in the Tampa area and have them reproduce my lines.

---Tony
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Re: Why would a '69 LCS A/C take a few miles to start coolin

Post by RMAENV »

Tony,

If you go to page 7 toward the bottom they say.... "OEM# C6VY19860A Part# EV5271" so C6VY... is a 1966 Lincoln part #.
Rob
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Re: Why would a '69 LCS A/C take a few miles to start coolin

Post by TonyC »

Well, Rob, I don't have MPCs in my collection, so I just have to rely on what others report.

About expansion valves, those are reasonably available on E-Bay as well. I got a new one several years ago, even included its own tar wrap, for a reasonable price. I still have the old listing watched, and it's still active. Until now the one part I thought could not be had new was the evaporator core. I compared that listing with pictures of my spare, and it's exactly right. So nice to see that; I'll be adding one to my collection of A/C parts as soon as I can get the bloody engine running again.

---Tony
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Re: Why would a '69 LCS A/C take a few miles to start coolin

Post by WMD »

MFE
Your delayed cooling problem may be that power is being sent to the compressor clutch but the clutch is not engaging immediately.
The difference in the early 66-68 and 68-69 evaporators is that the early ones have a FLARE style refrigeration hose connector and the later ones are the O RING style.
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Re: Why would a '69 LCS A/C take a few miles to start coolin

Post by TonyC »

Question: Does that difference in '68/9 apply strictly to the evaporators in the full-sizers, or is that a difference between the full-sizers and the Marks? Both models were available by those years, and both applications were very different. I would think that, to keep costs down, the engineers would not make such a radical alteration to the full-size evaporators while they are still carrying on the basic sub-series, not until the 1970 overhaul.

'Course, I could be wrong. I do know that, despite the same basic brake design, the booster of the '69 full-sizer had a different input pushrod from the previous years, which would make fitting of a '69 booster into an older full-sizer impossible without swapping out the rod. So maybe they did tinker with component designs that late in the series.

I for one am really glad to see evaporators being reproduced for '66 cars. I very recently decided to do a makeshift vacuum test on the evaporator in Frankenstein, the one I bought from LincolnLand 9 years ago, used and never checked. I plugged the high-side fitting and applied a vacuum pump through the low-side fitting, pulling 5" vacuum, and waited. In less than 10 minutes, the reading dropped back to zero; that tells me there is a breach somewhere inside that core. So, come turn-of-month, I'll be putting in for a brand-new core.

---Tony
Last edited by TonyC on Thu Apr 22, 2021 8:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Don't believe everything you read on the Internet, just because there is a picture with a quote next to it." (Abraham Lincoln, 1866)
"Question Authority!"

1966 Continental Sedan, affectionately known as "Frankenstein" until body restoration is done (to be renamed "General Sherman" on that event)
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