Sluggish Start-Up Issue

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TonyC
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Sluggish Start-Up Issue

Post by TonyC »

Hi, all,

The deep freeze that Kansas is just now coming out of took a bit of a toll on Frankenstein. I've been having problems getting him to start up; it took several jump-starts just to get him to start up. Here's what I have done so far:

Engine runs (relatively) fine once started, but I've been afraid to shut it off whenever I have to go shopping. It cranks very, very slowly—sluggishly, actually—hot or cold, even when jumped off. I bought a small charger to charge the battery, and it has shown no problems with the battery itself. Today, I cleaned off all the connections to the battery and the starter relay for good measure, none of which made a difference. I then went to O'Reilly to have a diagnosis done; the tech checked the alternator, the battery, and the starter, all of which checked out fine. For the starter check, I had to turn off the engine and try cranking; it did the sluggish turnover, but his instrument said the starter itself was okay. He suggested that the relay may have gone weak, which sounded sensible to me, so I bought a new one. Being that I know that the heavier Ford products are notorious for eating these relays up, and considering that the old one has gone through quite an oil bath for the past couple years (it's been even longer since I last replaced it), does it make sense to the Forum that the relay could be the cause of the sluggish cranking? It does to me, but I would like input. I'm about to install the new one for good measure, after I give my heart a bit of a break.

---Tony
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1966 Continental Sedan, affectionately known as "Frankenstein" until body restoration is done (to be renamed "General Sherman" on that event)
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Re: Sluggish Start-Up Issue

Post by papawayne »

Your timing isn't off is it Tony? Or are you having a different kind of sluggishness than bad timing might create? Just thinking, Wayne
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Re: Sluggish Start-Up Issue

Post by papawayne »

Your timing isn't off is it Tony? Or are you having a different kind of sluggishness than bad timing might create? Just thinking, Wayne
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TonyC
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Re: Sluggish Start-Up Issue

Post by TonyC »

No, timing is right on the mark. Even the dwell angle of the points is still within spec range. Besides, I remember when either of those were off, the engine would still crank faster than it is now.

---Tony

UPDATE as of 2 March: Actually, I discovered upon opening the engine front that the timing was in fact physically off. The cam gear was physically retarded in relation to the crank gear, to the tune of about 7º; when I replaced the camshaft a year and a half ago, I made 100% certain the gears were dead-on, telling me the components had worn out since then. However, all-new components have made no difference.
Last edited by TonyC on Sat May 08, 2021 5:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Don't believe everything you read on the Internet, just because there is a picture with a quote next to it." (Abraham Lincoln, 1866)
"Question Authority!"

1966 Continental Sedan, affectionately known as "Frankenstein" until body restoration is done (to be renamed "General Sherman" on that event)
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Re: Sluggish Start-Up Issue

Post by Mike »

If it's still cold out that could be causing it.
The relay shouldn't make a difference but it shouldn't cost that much to get a new one to try it.
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Re: Sluggish Start-Up Issue

Post by TonyC »

We shall see. It's chilly but we're out of the deep freeze. With all other components given a clean bill of health, that's the only thing left. Fortunately, those relays are pretty cheap; the new one I got cost only $20.

Another thing, too: I had come across odd incidents over the years involving the relay that the shop manual does not cover at all. For example, in 2005 when I was going to PT formation, I parked and turned the key off, and the engine kept running as if I never turned it off. I hit the relay with a hammer, and it quit. Replacing it cured the problem. The shop manual doesn't even mention that sort of thing.

---Tony
"Don't believe everything you read on the Internet, just because there is a picture with a quote next to it." (Abraham Lincoln, 1866)
"Question Authority!"

1966 Continental Sedan, affectionately known as "Frankenstein" until body restoration is done (to be renamed "General Sherman" on that event)
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Re: Sluggish Start-Up Issue

Post by frasern »

If you're not already using it, premium gas, and a lighter oil could help. The solenoid could be functional, but have marginally high resistance, as could the starter, made worse by the cold. Battery cables that are old or distorted?
Carry a can of ether, just in case.
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Re: Sluggish Start-Up Issue

Post by Dan Szwarc »

My 66 turned over very slowly due to an undercharged battery, but would mostly start.

Good spark helps a marginal starter. Are all your points and coil in top condition?

Tony is one of the few who drives a 50+ year old car all year round. I once started my 69 Lincoln in -20F weather. It turned over great, but took a while (because it was stored in the garage for winter). It had to prime the fuel and everything from sitting. I was proud it worked!
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Re: Sluggish Start-Up Issue

Post by papawayne »

tony is the ONLY person i know who does this with a Lincoln. I did see an old ford pickup the other day, though covered in road salt. Wayne
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Re: Sluggish Start-Up Issue

Post by TonyC »

Yes, I may be the only one crazy enough to use this car every day. :lol:

The new relay helped a little with the sluggish turnover, but now I'm suspecting there may be something else. I tried to go out for a night ride last night, the car started up, then when I shifted into gear the engine stalled out and would not restart. Just a little while ago I tried starting it up, and it still would not start up, but it seemed like it was trying to fire up. I'm suspecting a fuel problem of sorts, which means I might take off the carburetor tomorrow, when it warms up a bit.

---Tony
"Don't believe everything you read on the Internet, just because there is a picture with a quote next to it." (Abraham Lincoln, 1866)
"Question Authority!"

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Re: Sluggish Start-Up Issue

Post by Dan Szwarc »

The problems are adding up to more headaches.
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Re: Sluggish Start-Up Issue

Post by Mike »

The joys of driving old non fuel injected cars in different temperature conditions... My last carbureted daily driver hit this one spot warming up that it would stall if you were stopped. If you were moving you never noticed it. If you were parked warming it up it would be fine. Drove me nuts.
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Re: Sluggish Start-Up Issue

Post by action »

Is the issue slower engine RPM when cranking?
OR
Normal engine RPM while cranking just long cranking time before the engine starts?

Action
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Re: Sluggish Start-Up Issue

Post by tomo »

Slow cranking starter can be due to low voltage at the starter or a bad starter. You can check the voltage drop to the starter by connecting a voltmeter between the battery positive post and the starter terminal and cranking the engine (red (positive) lead at the battery and black(COM) lead on the starter terminal).

The meter should read 0.3volts or less. If it reads more, you have excess resistance in the circuit, usually caused by corroded cables.

Check the ground side by connecting the red meter lead to the case of the starter and the black meter lead to the NEG post of the battery and operate the starter while reading the meter. The reading should be 0.1Volts or less. Higher readings indicate a problem in the grounding circuit.

You can make a rough check of the starter current draw by connecting the meter across the battery and cranking the engine while reading the meter. The voltage drop should be around 2 volts. If it is more and your battery is fully charged in good condition, your starter may be drawing too much current and a current draw test should be done with an ammeter or pull the starter and have it rebuilt.

Don't put this off if you need the car for daily driving, your starter could give up the ghost faster that you think.
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Re: Sluggish Start-Up Issue

Post by papawayne »

Tomo is right. With no warning whatsoever, the starter on my 93 TC gave up the ghost at a gas station. No amount of whacking it with a tire iron would coax it to life, not even for just one start. Wayne
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