Power windows booster relays

Power windows, power lock, power seats, radios, heaters, fans, motors, relays, air conditioning, and other accessories or wiring-related items.

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Re: Power windows booster relays

Postby brendanw » Fri Sep 19, 2014 12:19 pm

poweroptions wrote: Chad here is my diagram, if you can't see it clearly on here I can send you a copy. Pat ps. the 61 -69 Lincolns' rear windows were all wired with relays from the factory, it is the front windows that didn't have relays if my memory is correct.


QUESTION: This diagram appears to imply that the 12V feed (BLUE wire) to the switches can be used to feed the motors via the relays. Is that true, in that a separate 12V feed to the door is not needed? If so, how would you tap into it - use a splice off the BLUE wire and run it to the relays (doesnt sound right) or just clip it and re-route it (then would the closing of the switch contacts engage the relay)?

Hmmm, can someone more electrically knowledgeable provide a complete system diagram? That would be great!
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Re: Power windows booster relays

Postby snoopy » Tue Sep 30, 2014 9:11 pm

Feeding the relays with the same power wire that feeds the switches, would negate the whole point of it. You feed a separate power wire to the relays power for the motor. That way you aren't pulling all the load through the switch therefore burning out the switch, and your motors will appreciate the extra power available to them as well. Add the extra wire you won't regret it as long as you route it properly
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Re: Power windows booster relays

Postby snoopy » Tue Sep 30, 2014 9:16 pm

That looks like most of my harness, but I haven't had the door panel off of my car to tell you yes or no, I don't think my door panel has ever been off,still factory fresh
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Re: Power windows booster relays

Postby elcad70 » Tue Sep 30, 2014 10:55 pm

Feeding the relays with the same power wire that feeds the switches, would negate the whole point of it.


The relevant point here is whether the circuit is in series or in parallel not where the feed comes from. If you splice a relay into the feed to the switch, you are effectively changing the circuit from a series circuit to a parallel circuit.
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Re: Power windows booster relays

Postby brendanw » Thu Feb 05, 2015 4:17 pm

I recently picked up the relays and quick-disconnects linked below, and generally referenced to in this post. I plan to run two (2) new +12V / 10 AWG wires from the accessory fuse panel I installed in the engine compartment to each of the front doors. I'll then wire in a relay to each of the main front power window motors and the vent window motors in order to reduce the current through the stock window switches. I'm also replacing the big, black, block-like plugs that plug into the window switches with new crimped pins and connectors (photos to follow), and I will be bypassing (getting rid of) the copper plates as well. Once I get it all done, I will post here with the results. It's been a lllooooooonnnnggggg time coming!!

Absolute RLS125 12-VCD Automotive Relay SPDT 30/40A - $4.14 each
http://www.amazon.com/Absolute-RLS125-1 ... B0002KR9GG

10 PIECES 12 GA 12" QUICK DISCONNECT POLARIZED INLINE POWER CABLE WIRE HARNESS - $25.95 per pkg
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00O59 ... UTF8&psc=1
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20150205_160105.jpg
20150205_155934.jpg
New connector plugged into the smaller (14 awg?) power antennae plug. The window motor plugs are bigger
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Re: Power windows booster relays

Postby 66Lincoupe » Thu Feb 05, 2015 4:43 pm

snoopy wrote:Feeding the relays with the same power wire that feeds the switches, would negate the whole point of it. You feed a separate power wire to the relays power for the motor. That way you aren't pulling all the load through the switch therefore burning out the switch, and your motors will appreciate the extra power available to them as well. Add the extra wire you won't regret it as long as you route it properly


You can use the same heavy lead that fed the switches to operate the relays; it just requires more wiring inside the doors. The idea is to stop running big current through the switch. With the relays you run the big current through contacts that are designed to pass big current. Leaving the switches to just turn on the relays...
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Re: Power windows booster relays

Postby Dan Szwarc » Sun Jun 07, 2015 9:21 pm

I am piggybacking this thread for now.

I am deciphering the 66-69 power window diagrams (they are NOT schematics) and figuring out the design flaws and fixes for slow windows.

Here's my presentation in process.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7DltSUG_8QxamkwcTEtZ090eUk/view?usp=sharing
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Re: Power windows booster relays

Postby brendanw » Mon Jun 08, 2015 8:03 am

Dan, that will be awesome when it's done. A wealth of information. Of course, you'll have to put the Cliff notes for those who just want to fix their power windows :).

I finished up the relay install and black connector block replacement on my '68 in the spring. Windows work great!
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=39362&start=15#p362288
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Re: Power windows booster relays

Postby Dan Szwarc » Mon Jun 08, 2015 8:51 am

I'm analyzing the design as I do the presentation. I will design a solution to common problems as I go. If I stay motivated, it will be done this year.

I'm having fun. I've already learned a lot.
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Re: Power windows booster relays

Postby brendanw » Mon Jun 08, 2015 2:33 pm

Very cool Dan, very cool! I have a bunch of photos that I took and some wiring diagrams that I drew out. I'd be happy to share those with you as you get to that part of the process so that you put together a 'solutions guide' to power windows
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Re: Power windows booster relays

Postby denizen44 » Tue Jun 09, 2015 7:49 pm

Great stuff, great idea!
I'm sold on this setup as well.
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Re: Power windows booster relays

Postby denizen44 » Wed Jun 10, 2015 8:16 pm

Woah, it really works lol!!
I just finished doing this for my passenger's window... :D
It used to be a bit sluggish, now goes up and down with lots more "enthusiasm" lol... And I love the clicks.

Dan, do you mind if I post the details of my setup in this thread?
I took several photos of each step, but it's pretty much based on poweroption's schematic.
Last edited by denizen44 on Thu Jun 11, 2015 6:33 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Power windows booster relays

Postby Dan Szwarc » Wed Jun 10, 2015 9:01 pm

Please do! There isn't one right way to do this. Others will gain knowledge from everything and do what works best for them.
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Re: Power windows booster relays

Postby denizen44 » Thu Jun 11, 2015 9:14 am

UPDATED :
-made better wiring
-added more photos


When I stumbled upon this thread, I had already cleaned out and greased up my window railings with significant improvements.
But it seemed so logical that the old momentary switches and current-hungry motors were the culprits for sluggishness,
I decided to try this on my passenger's window.

Poweroptions's previously posted schematic made it clear that I did not need to decypher too much of the electrical system to make this work.

A reminder about relay basics....
30/85/86/87/87a are standardized terminal numbers across several relay brands and types.

Image

So, 87 and 87a are just like terminals of a switch: one of them has to be conductive.
87a is the relay's 'parking position', it conducts when the relay is inactive, and 87 does so when the relay is activated by a small current.

Image

Here's my own version of poweroptions's schematic, slightly modified to fit my own wire color scheme.

Image
On this "mirror setup", only one of the relays is being activated at a time, so the 87a terminal must be used, for closing the power loop on the side(relay) that is NOT being activated.

Parts

Found these 30A/40A relays @$3.00 each. Sockets also $3.00/ea.

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The relays have a holding bracket...

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...and the sockets have a neat little railing which allows them to be joined.

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10ga. If you buy these quick disconnect wires with enough length, you can cut them in half to get two wire sets with the sought after endings.
This is what I did: I cut them in the middle.

Image

Relay location

I tucked the relay chain snugly in the armrest, just behind the handle, where they would be protected against the elements.
To hold them in place, I used bolts instead of pop rivets, so I could add spacers(not visible).

Image

This will be hidden by the armrest's own decorative panel.

Image

Wiring

Here's a simple breakdown of the following sections:

Image

I. Motor

The two red wires(30) need to be routed to the motor via a quick disconnect.
But to avoid making junctions in the wires, I decided to dispose of the relay socket's original wires...

Image

...and replace them directly with one of the halved 10ga quick-disconnects:

Image

I pulled these connectors out of the relay sockets with the help of a small flat screwdriver.
Now these same connectors will be transferred to the other wires.

Image

They were poorly crimped, so I pulled them out with pliers.

Image

Then I installed them on the new quick disconnect's freshly cut wires.

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The result after soldering:

Image
Image

I slid the terminals back into the relay sockets, where the 2 original red wires(30) used to be.
This will connect to the motor, so polarity matters here.

Image

II. Power source

According to my own schematics(1970), which I have colored for clarity, the blue wire(power source, number 1) goes through the toggle-type "window locking" switch(number 2) on the driver's master switch board, where it becomes yellow-red(number 3).
That's the power source for the passenger's door.
That wire does not traverse any of the sentitive momentary window switches.

Image

That yellow-red power wire was more like 'red with yellow dots' in reality.
In this original configuration, it provides motor power through the switches.
But like poweroptions indicated, I'll be using this source to feed the relay's power wires(white) instead.

Image

The simplest way to tap the power was to solder a beefier wire(blue, 12 gauge) right at the source.
After this, the original power wire(red with yellow dots) will only fill a small power demand.
The multi-connector's individual terminals can be pulled out by using a small screwdriver to press on a small strip on their backside.

Image

I tucked the terminal back in.
These terminal 'chambers' are large enough to accomodate two wires.

Image

The other end gets a ring terminal.

Image

Then through this short bolt, it's joined to both power wires, whose endings also got ring terminals.

Image

Heat shrunk insulation.

Image

III. Relay activation

I used the other half of the quick disconnect wire set I purchased, and attached wire 85(black) from first relay, and 86(yellow) from second relay:

Image

It connects to the door harness here, INSTEAD of the motor:

Image

This connection(tagged 'A' below) could also have been built without junctions, but the benefits would have been marginal since it only carries small currents.

IV. Ground

The ground connection(tagged 'B' below) is made of the remaining 85, 86 along with both 87a(blue).
I soldered ring terminals on all four of these wires, to bolt them all to the door frame.
But in my setup, the presence of this reinforcement L-bracket was also suited for this connection, since the armrest itself gets bolted on the door.
This really simplified the ground connection.
A wire extending from the door frame would also work of course.

Image

Recap: here's a photo just before putting the armrest back on, showing how everything was tucked in nicely.

Image

All done. Works great!
Much faster, and you can hear the relays clicking :D

Image

:!: It should be noted that, with the much added torque, the window motors whose gear plugs were about to break are more likely to do so, right on the first test!

Edit: ok so I made a video:
Before it got any attention, this heavy window used to work but sluggishly, sometimes stopping midway on humid days. :roll:
Now it's about three times faster(despite wet swollen weatherstripping):
https://vimeo.com/232403592

Conclusion:
66Lincoupe said it best,
The idea is to stop running big current through the switch. With the relays you run the big current through contacts that are designed to pass big current. Leaving the switches to just turn on the relays...

This primary goal was met here, and offered significant improvements.
Still, slightly greater speed could probably be attained with a beefier(12 gauge) power wire crossing the door hinges.

Update 06-18-2015: Also did the passenger's quarter window! :D
It used to be sluggish, not anymore:

https://vimeo.com/232403675
Last edited by denizen44 on Mon Sep 04, 2017 6:14 pm, edited 11 times in total.
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Re: Power windows booster relays

Postby bd94s10 » Mon Dec 14, 2015 8:52 pm

Thanks denizen44 and others for the info on this post. I was searching for some info about standard Bosch relay wiring and denizen44 the diagram you posted was spot on! I've never wired up relays myself but your post made it super simple. I'll be posting pics on my build thread soon! viewtopic.php?f=12&t=41559&start=255
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