Power windows booster relays

Power windows, power lock, power seats, radios, heaters, fans, motors, relays, air conditioning, and other accessories or wiring-related items.

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stsh10
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Re: Power windows booster relays

Post by stsh10 »

I hate to bring this old post back from the dead but, I acquired all the parts based on this thread to fix my two front windows on my '65. Upon closer inspection I realized that the quick connects to my window motors are three prong. Can anyone help enlighten me on how to modify this fix to work with my three prong motors?
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Steve K
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Re: Power windows booster relays

Post by Steve K »

One of the three wires is a ground with the remaining wires 1 for up and 1 for down directions. The black wire is ground and the other two are for up and down. I can't remember which is which. What color are your wires to the motor and have you tried using a jumper to test them with 12 v straight from the battery? This is what a 65 motor looks like. Note the 3 wires. Are yours like this with the same color wires? Unless someone told me different to save me the time, I'd just jump your motors and see what you have. Post a pic of your motors and connections so we can see if they are factory or different would you?
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2018 Lincoln Continental
1964 Lincoln Continental Sedan
1948 Mercury Town Sedan,
1959 Mercury Montclair
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stsh10
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Re: Power windows booster relays

Post by stsh10 »

Yeah mine look exactly like that...same color wires and everything. I Was just curious since it appeared to me on every thread they gave the appearance they would just plug right into those 2 prong plugs. Did the 64 and down have 2 prong plugs? Anyway thanks for the info man, I'm in Oklahoma you should just come up here and give me a hand lol.
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Steve K
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Re: Power windows booster relays

Post by Steve K »

Feel free to come on down....I'll fix your windows and you fix my brakes!

As far as I know, the 60s Lincoln window motors all have three wires. When you look online for replacements, the pictures of the ones they are selling at the various vendors all look the same as far as wire connectors. It makes sense since you need a ground and then an energized wire for each direction the motor turns (so it can go up and down).

I'm guessing the three wire connectors are changed out so that a single wire connector goes from the ground wire (black) to the common ground shown for the ground terminals of the relays. Then, the two wire connector could be substituted for the remaining two wires (red and yellow) to plug into the appropriate two wires from the setup comprised of the two relays as pictured.

I'll let the OP clarify since I have not done this project yet but that would make sense to me.
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brendanw
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Re: Power windows booster relays

Post by brendanw »

STSH10,

My '68 window motors have the 2-prong / wire connector, with one RED wire and one YELLOW wire. I didnt realize that earlier Lincoln window motors came with a 3-prong / wire version, but whatever. The YELLOW and RED wires on the 2-wire connectors feed right back to the two middle pins on the 6-pin DPDT window switches. If, on the bottom of the switch, I put +12V to the middle pin with the RED wire the window will go DOWN, and to the YELLOW wire it will go UP. I assume this translates to the same UP/DOWN if I put +12V directly to the RED or YELLOW wires at the window motor connector (probably a safe bet).

Are you trying to wire the 3-prong window motor connector to a set of relays, where in previous posts on this thread everyone wired in relays and only referenced the 2-prong plugs? Cant you get 3-prong plugs? If not, just follow the diagrams for the RED and YELLOW wires, then maybe just connect the BLACK wire to pin 87a and jumpered to the other 87a. Heck, maybe it's just like a 'case ground' and so you might be able to just ground it to the sheet metal in the door. Hard to believe this bridge hasnt been crossed before. Any others have the 3-pring connectors?
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65desperado
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Re: Power windows booster relays

Post by 65desperado »

Just going through all four windows right now. Whatever it takes to get them going reliably. Biggest issue I see so far is old grease and gummed up window runners and regulators. Motors appear to be OK so that's a plus. Other major issue are the switches and voltage drop. Will be installing relays and either rebuilding the switches or ordering new ones that just came up in another thread. They are about $100 for 10 switches and they would require cutting the switch connectors but that's OK as they are probably part of the problem.

And yes most of this thread refers to the two prong wire. I believe that prior to 66 the window motors were 3 prong, 1 for ground and 1 up and 1 down. I would suspect that the diagrams in this thread would work just using the red and yellow wire. I have just grounded the 3rd black wire to the sheet metal in the door. According to John Cashman some 65's had a grey ground wire with a resistor in it to slow the window down for child safety.

Oh and make sure your regulator spring is wound tight for a speedy help up for the motor. Be careful when disconnecting/disengaging the motor from the regulator it is wound tight, see scissors of death.
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denizen44
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Re: Power windows booster relays

Post by denizen44 »

Haven't tried out these motors, but if indeed they only require 12v on the red or yellow to activate, then one relay per direction can still be used. Each of the two red wires in the original drawing can be connected to these 2 motor wires. However, the 87a connections are not to be used since/if the motor has a fixed ground.
Last edited by denizen44 on Sat Feb 27, 2016 2:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Power windows booster relays

Post by John Cashman »

Here is the lowdown on window motors:61-2 are 4 wire motors in the front and 5 wire in the rear of convertibles. These motors have powered fields, making for a very powerful motor. 63-64 front motors are 3 wire and convertibles use a 4 wire motor in the rear of convertibles. These motors are no way interchangeable with 61-2 motors.63-65 motors have grounded fields, red for down and yellow for up. 65 motors are the same wireing as 63-4 but the gear head is part of the motor. This 65 motor is garbage and has a MAJOR engineering problem(jamming) 65's get retrofitted to 63-4 motors unless you want to do it again. Now there was NO reason for the 'extra' blue wire on convertible motors.All you have to do on convertibles is connect the extra wire to black and use a sedan motor in a convertible application.The aftermarket relays are unnecessary on ANY applications prior to 1966 when they went to the 2 wire permanent magnet motor which was cheap to make (and used through 1989)This is known as the 'reverse polarity' motor and has to have a double throw window switch to switch the polarity to switch direction. In 66 and up sedans and front door windows on convertibles,the relay kit speeds the glass up because you're not dealing the voltage drop through the window switches. Convertibles already have relays on the rear windows.These relay kits are available ready to plug and play from LMC truck. Chevys also had slow windows due to drawing full motor current through the window switches.(atleast they were better than Ford switches!) Previously on this post I saw a picture of a 'new' 65 window motor. I throw those out day in and day out... Total Chinese JUNK.Nobody has changed more window motors than me, 35 years worth...
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Re: Power windows booster relays

Post by 65desperado »

Interesting find on the rear passenger window motor on my 65, (Yeah I know, they are crap but they are mine) is a 2 wire motor from a 66 or later, hard to know.

It is wired with two relay's for the reverse polarity motor. It alternates between the 2 wires, which one gets 12volts and which one gets ground when you hit the window switch.

What is most interesting is that the 2 wire motor is made to fit the 65 regulator. Just a slight modification is needed, a flat washer is welded to the regulator where it meets the motor shaft to support the end of the shaft. The opening in the washer is the same diameter as the shaft. It appears the only other fix is the holes do not line up where the motor/gear housing attaches to the regulator. Just drill out the regulator to mate up with the gear housing holes and run some 10-24 stove bolts with nuts through them.

I was looking around in the event that I may have to replace motors in the future and it appears Dorman has a 2 wire window motors for 66 and later. They do not look anything like OEM but the 9 tooth gear appears to look like it would work. You would have to drill out the regulator to mate the holes but it may work and save some $$$, they are only $70-80 compared to the Usual Suspects.

For future fixes, has anyone used a Dorman motor in there 60's slabside?
Wade
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Re: Power windows booster relays

Post by 65desperado »

Adding a new wrinkle to those that wire in a 2 wire window motor into a 65/64 3 wire window motor and chassis harness.

The previous drawing for the relay wiring was for a 66 and newer. I used it on my 65 but only because I have a 66 or newer window motor in the rear passenger window (see my earlier post).

Now I can not operate the rear passenger window from the driver control panel because the wires for the older (65/64) 3 wire window motor are not used to wire the relays to the newer 2 wire window motor. Are you following me so far. The wires used are the ones from the door harness/rear pass. window switch only. When I try activate the rear pass. switch from the drivers door panel it activates one of the two wires that are no longer part of the circuit now according to the relay wiring. (these were 2 of the wires, not including the ground, that went to the old 3 wire motor)

My question is, if I connect one of these wires to terminal 86 on one relay and terminal 85 on the other relay will this allow me to operate the rear pass. window from the drivers switch?

Not sure if I am explaining the problem well enough, but hopefully someone will chime in.
Wade
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denizen44
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Re: Power windows booster relays

Post by denizen44 »

An OEM wiring diagram for that year would really help
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66 or newer 2 wire window motor in 65/64

Post by 65desperado »

The answer to my previous post is yes, you need to connect both the passenger door harness switch and the driver door harness switch to terminal 85 and terminal 86 as per the drawing earlier in this thread. Guess it makes sense, but was a little confusing because the drivers door switch fed the old 65 3 wire motor.

There is just so much wiring on these old slabsides and now with 2 relays in there it looks like a door full of spaghetti.

But it works.
Wade
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Dan Szwarc
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Re: Power windows booster relays

Post by Dan Szwarc »

Relays installed in Doug's RF door.
image.jpg
His window now works smoothly and consistently.

The hardest part is snaking a 12g wire into the door from the engine bay or the passenger breakers. It took us about 3 hours total to get it all tidied up, but was worth every minute.
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Re: Power windows booster relays

Post by cptsaltyballs »

be careful using white lithium grease it will harden over time. Love this thread.
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Re: Power windows booster relays

Post by denizen44 »

Dan, did you test to see if rain water can reach these relays?
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