12 v ignition power source for pertronix

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denizen44
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Re: 12 v ignition power source for pertronix

Post by denizen44 »

Thanks. For now I went with the rightmost setup on the figure above.
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denizen44
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Re: 12 v ignition power source for pertronix

Post by denizen44 »

Dan Szwarc wrote:I don't think the coils overheat with a pertronix because of the way the Hall Effect sensor works.
On a points system, the points are closed and conducting current 90% of the time. The spark occurs when the points OPEN, which is the peak of each point on the distributor cam.
The Pertronix might only be closed for a small portion when the magnet is near the unit, then jumps to off when it falls away. This would mean it spends more time OFF than ON. Since it still sparks when the unit turns OFF (opens), the coils it not actually conducting current as much compared to using points.
Someone from pertronix could confirm this or someone with a scope.
Got a reply from Pertronix tech support, and it might surprize you.
Here it goes:
Pertronix tech support wrote: With our Ignitors the coil will run much hotter than with points; the
Ignitors extend the charge time of the coil and the longer they charge, the
hotter they will get. Coils in general can get as hot as 210 degrees (max)
and will operate normally.
Some other info:
Pertronix tech support wrote: With the Ignitor II removal of the resistance wire is recommended when
installing a coil with at least 0.45 ohms of primary resistance or greater.

The purpose of the resistance wire was to lower the current to the points to
keep them from burning up too fast. All of the Ignitor require resistance in
the circuit to protect them (original Ignitor) or for proper operation
(Ignitor II and III). Using too much resistance will cause drivability
issues, starting, or stalling.
Also found this elsewhere, on Ignitor voltage :
David, The minimum Voltage is 8 volts and the maximum is 16 volts. The Ignitor and the Ignitor II will run as long as the voltage doesn’t drop too much. If the engine starts to run poor, bypass the resistance wire.
Edit: I was still confused about the Ignitor's "resistance requirement" mentioned above, but this morning he made things very clear:
Pertronix tech support wrote: 1. 5.5 volts are required for the coil to work properly.
2. Figure "B" is correct. The Ignitor "RED" wire needs a solid 12V to power up, very little current runs through the red wire.
3. All the current travels through the coil and to the Ignitor black wire, that's why we need the resistance to the coil
He was looking at the following schematic:
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Dan Szwarc
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Re: 12 v ignition power source for pertronix

Post by Dan Szwarc »

See My first post in this thread (second overall) for the answer to which relay to tap on a 66 to 69 Lincoln.

Quick answer: ORANGE-YELLOW STRIPE wire coming off a relay with a black connector with three wires (other two wires are BLUE and WHITE). On my car, it is the bottom-rear relay, but no guarantee that it is original. It is the turn signal relay.
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Re: 12 v ignition power source for pertronix

Post by Dan Szwarc »

Here's a picture of the harness one has to build to tap into the relay for switched ignition 12V.
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Switched 12v ignition harness
Switched 12v ignition harness
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Ken Stevens
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Re: 12 v ignition power source for pertronix

Post by Ken Stevens »

Yet another question regarding the 12v sourcing in the 61: I am in the process of replacing the dreaded pink wire in the dash in order to get 12v to the coil. My intention was to keep the underwood connections as they are. But I was curious if it is necessary/advisable to install an inline fuse in the 12v feed to the Igniter III?

And as long as I'm asking, should I use 12 or 14 gauge wire to replace the resistor in the dash?
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Re: 12 v ignition power source for pertronix

Post by Jakeblues55 »

Just checking that it's never stock that the coil wire is already 12v at the coil, right? I bought an Ignitor III and Flamethrower III a few weeks ago for my 66 convertible, just waiting for it to be warm enough to work in my garage.

That day came today, re-read all the posts for the best place to get the 12v source from. But turned the key to ignition and the coil wire was registering 12.3v . I've owned my car for 10 years, i've never done a tune up yet. Hence why i was very excited to do this. Points looked clean and intact when i took them out.

I installed the ignitor III and flamethrower III. i also bought new plugs and wires, they are going on tomorrow. The only issues i had after starting it up was that i definitely need to adjust the timing and it seemed to idle fast for a longer time than normal.

Should i chock this up to someone took out the resistor and put on a different coil prior to me?
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Re: 12 v ignition power source for pertronix

Post by Dan Szwarc »

Jakeblues55 wrote:Just checking that it's never stock that the coil wire is already 12v at the coil, right? I bought an Ignitor III and Flamethrower III a few weeks ago for my 66 convertible, just waiting for it to be warm enough to work in my garage.

That day came today, re-read all the posts for the best place to get the 12v source from. But turned the key to ignition and the coil wire was registering 12.3v . I've owned my car for 10 years, i've never done a tune up yet. Hence why i was very excited to do this. Points looked clean and intact when i took them out.

I installed the ignitor III and flamethrower III. i also bought new plugs and wires, they are going on tomorrow. The only issues i had after starting it up was that i definitely need to adjust the timing and it seemed to idle fast for a longer time than normal.

Should i chock this up to someone took out the resistor and put on a different coil prior to me?
When you check the voltage, the wire has to be attached to the coil and the car running. You can't check it open circuit (disconnected).

The voltage drop only happens when the coil resistance is in series with the wire resistance (Ohms Law 101).

I'm prepping my car for its summer vacation and noticed I never hooked up the coil to the 12V source. I'm still using the original coil with the resistor wire. The 12V source I used for the choke and only the choke. Since I don't have any ignition problems, I'm not concerned. I've had an Ignitor coil installed previously and swapped the original back for show purposes, but I think I'm going to put the chrome one back in for the summer.
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Re: 12 v ignition power source for pertronix

Post by Ken Stevens »

So I replaced the pink resistor wire in the ignition circuit, installed the Flamethrower and Pertronix III, new plugs and new wires. So I'm all ready to rock and now the directional signals first decide not to blink on one side. Now neither side works. It never ends. Now I have to check fuses and the speedo housing has to come out so I can check the signal flasher, and tracing wires I might have bumped and disconnected while I was dinking around back there.

I hate underdash work...
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Frank Drebin
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Re: 12 v ignition power source for pertronix

Post by Frank Drebin »

To take a 12 V source for the pertronix for a Lincoln Mark III (1971) you can use the wire from the ignition Switch to jump the resistor wire. See Pictures.
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Re: 12 v ignition power source for pertronix

Post by LithiumCobalt »

Just got done installing the Pertronix II and Flamethrower coil. Always thought all the talk about this system was just hype. Had points on my convertible and never had a problem. With my sedan, couldn’t get the car to run right even with all new stuff. All I could muster was 18in vacuum and idle was all over. Installed the Pertronix kit and WOW. Night and day. I’m a believer now. Even with the original resistance wire it runs very nice and getting a steady 20in vacuum.

Dan, made a harness like yours above and tried it alone, but could not get any spark. Did you use this harness for 12v plus the original resistance wire for cranking? Also, probed the orange yellow wire and it is hot with key on or off so doesn’t appear to be switched on my ‘67. Would like to give it full 12v, but right now it’s running damn good as-is. Stopped to fill up will some premium and put it back in the garage as it’s shitty outside.
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Dan Szwarc
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Re: 12 v ignition power source for pertronix

Post by Dan Szwarc »

The relay and wiring may be different on 67s, 68s, or 69. Of cource, I recommend verifying that the source is switched 12V before tapping it and using it.

Congrats you were able to make a serviceable fix.
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Re: 12 v ignition power source for pertronix

Post by Steve K »

This may be more work than you want to do because it involves running a wire through the firewall into the engine compartment. But, in the event you do, under the carpet covering the kick panel on the passenger side is a power block with your choice of switched and unswitched terminals with round terminal ends on them held down by simple bolts. You just solder your own round cable end to the wire you run through the firewall and bolt in on.
There are some unused switched and unswitched terminals there too so you don't need to tamper with the source of juice to anything else. Those are perhaps part of the wiring harness used in verts I don't know. Anyway, I just ran a 4 wire cable through the firewall giving myself a stub out for 3 switched and 1 un-switched power wires under the hood for whatever future use I have. I then made a harness like as been described under the hood for the pertronix using a fuse and a relay. If I ever want or need more clean circuits under the hood (or dash) I have them already to go.

I believe these terminals provide power to the fuse block so you need to add a fuse under the hood where it's easy to change if you need to and to protect the circuit. 64 and 65 are the same I believe and lack the relays Dan is referring to on his 66.

Why did I not choose something already under the hood? 1. I already had the brake booster out at the time which gave me easy access through the firewall because the booster being out reveals some existing holes and 2. By using a black cable containing the 4 wires I used, it makes it look like just one more vacuum hose under the hood and not like some incorrect colored wires. Just a quirk of mine for keeping things looking original.
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Re: 12 v ignition power source for pertronix

Post by LithiumCobalt »

A few posts back in this thread someone with a ‘69 used the aft located post on the starter solenoid. I tried the same and worked just fine for my ‘67. Thanks for the tip on the junction box inside - may come in handy down the road, but glad I didn’t have to fish any wires into there from the engine bay.

EDIT: After consulting my wiring diagrams, I learned that this aft post is the same post used from the factory to supply the coil. The way it was designed to work was to supply 12v while cranking, but after in run position, it is supposed to only supply the stepped down voltage due to the resistance wire. Therefore, this isn't ideal. I put a voltmeter on this post with the key on and it showed 12v, however. :smt017 ONly way that could be true, I would think, is if the resistance wire were bypassed. Will have to drop the lower trim panel and have a look this coming weekend. If it turns out this post only has the stepped down voltage, I have a new plan for switched 12v via the window safety relay feed using a modified version of Dan's jumper harness.
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Re: 12 v ignition power source for pertronix

Post by LithiumCobalt »

Found a switched power source for my '67 for anyone wanting to modify their car. I used Dan's idea for a jumper harness shown above to avoid cutting into factory wiring. I used the switched source at the window safety relay in the bank on the driver fender. It has a red plug on it and contains three wires. The middle wire is solid red and fed by circuit 194, which comes from the accessory terminal on the ignition switch. Full +12 volts to the coil and pertronix and off with the ignition switch.
Nick
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Buckeye Steve
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Re: 12 v ignition power source for pertronix

Post by Buckeye Steve »

Where would a good 12v source be to install a Pertronix II and Flamethrower II coil on a 1962 Lincoln Convertible?

If I find a good 12 v source, I don't have to take the pink wire out, right? 2 new knees and 2 back surgeries make under dash very unfun.

Thanks

Buckeye Steve
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