The Sixty-One Will Freeze Your face Off!

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The Sixty-One Will Freeze Your face Off!

Postby rick » Mon Jun 07, 2021 4:52 pm

Hi Everyone,

Well, I received a call from the repair shop (the good repair shop not the other one) that the Lincoln was ready and that as far as they could tell it had no leaks and was holding pressure fine. This was the same news as I had received last week, but at that point in time it wasn't blowing any cold air...... just ambient room temperature air.

I got my son to drive me down late this afternoon to pick it up and when I arrived, the tech had left a note with the receptionist indicating that he'd removed the R-134a that he'd put in last week and then refilled it again today plus it had taken extra.......Not sure what that means, but whatever.

It's been really stinking hot here today and I had expected to drive it the eight miles home with the windows open.

But I swung that control lever all the way left to Air Conditioning, then pulled out the fan.......... and WOW...........air conditioning blowing cold, cold air in large amounts. That's before I discovered that the fan can be pulled out even two more notches. This system will definitely cool the whole car, back seat and everything on a hot day. Don't know about the rest of you but number one: I had never expected it to ever work. I figured that even if we actually got the various parts in order, then the control head would be non-functioning. Number Two: It works very, very well with very impressive capacity.................... for now :grin: :grin: , (I'm a realist)

This has been a good day.

Rick
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Re: The Sixty-One Will Freeze Your face Off!

Postby action » Mon Jun 07, 2021 5:59 pm

rick wrote:I got my son to drive me down late this afternoon to pick it up and when I arrived, the tech had left a note with the receptionist indicating that he'd removed the R-134a that he'd put in last week and then refilled it again today plus it had taken extra.......Not sure what that means, but whatever.

It's been really stinking hot here today and I had expected to drive it the eight miles home with the windows open.

But I swung that control lever all the way left to Air Conditioning, then pulled out the fan.......... and WOW...........air conditioning blowing cold, cold air in large amounts. That's before I discovered that the fan can be pulled out even two more notches. This system will definitely cool the whole car, back seat and everything on a hot day. Don't know about the rest of you but number one: I had never expected it to ever work. I figured that even if we actually got the various parts in order, then the control head would be non-functioning. Number Two: It works very, very well with very impressive capacity.................... for now :grin: :grin: , (I'm a realist)

Rick


Likely the tech did what he did is because he/she did not know how much refrigerant was in the system and did know system capacity.
So the system was evacuated. They do know how much they took out.
Then was refilled with the correct amount which was somewhat greater than what was taken out.

A correctly filled system works rather well. (Given everything else is working) Even on a stinking hot day.

And it is a luxury car, there was some over capacity designed into the system. Even back in 1961.
The system performance may drop off some with the vehicle idling at a stand still. That is when it is the hardest for the condenser to shed heat that it has picked up inside the car. Vehicle movement is the key if possible.

The other negative possibility on a very hot day is after the vehicle shut down. (This applies to all vehicles) Once the engine is turned off, the cooling (or shedding of heat) has stopped. This is called heat soak. The engine is full of heat, the cooling system is full of heat and the AC system is super heated. What you might do on hot soak re-start is shut off the AC (and the interior fan for your comfort) system for the first minute or two upon restart. After the engine RPM has settled down and before you engaged the transmission turn on the system. Adding load to the engine in steps helps for longevity.

Glad to hear you have a cool ride.

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Re: The Sixty-One Will Freeze Your face Off!

Postby LithiumCobalt » Tue Jun 08, 2021 8:30 am

There's nothing like a good functioning R-12 system in a car. I spent the cash to rebuild the system in my '67 sedan and was very pleased.
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Re: The Sixty-One Will Freeze Your face Off!

Postby TonyC » Tue Jun 08, 2021 12:27 pm

Nice story of triumph! So, that's what went with one of the two most popular myths about old cars. There are two things on an old car you can never fix once they stop working: The A/C and the clock. I debunked the second one years ago; it's nice to see others debunk the first one.

I am still resolute to do my own debunking of that myth. For the past five years I have collected all-new components, from condenser to evaporator, and am almost ready to assemble them all. I am missing one set of parts, though: Lines. I have all the original lines, but they are in no condition to ever use again, except as models for reproduction. That is something I intend to have done next time I can visit my mother in Florida. Perhaps I should have the muffler and the service valves examined; aside from the engine brackets those are the only OE parts I've retained for the system.

---Tony
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Re: The Sixty-One Will Freeze Your face Off!

Postby LithiumCobalt » Tue Jun 08, 2021 4:02 pm

TonyC wrote:Nice story of triumph! So, that's what went with one of the two most popular myths about old cars. There are two things on an old car you can never fix once they stop working: The A/C and the clock. I debunked the second one years ago; it's nice to see others debunk the first one.

I am still resolute to do my own debunking of that myth. For the past five years I have collected all-new components, from condenser to evaporator, and am almost ready to assemble them all. I am missing one set of parts, though: Lines. I have all the original lines, but they are in no condition to ever use again, except as models for reproduction. That is something I intend to have done next time I can visit my mother in Florida. Perhaps I should have the muffler and the service valves examined; aside from the engine brackets those are the only OE parts I've retained for the system.

---Tony

If your compressor is "new" the seals are probably no good if it has been sitting around a while. May have to explore replacing that before you assemble everything. Luckily they are reasonably priced.
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Re: The Sixty-One Will Freeze Your face Off!

Postby TonyC » Tue Jun 08, 2021 6:07 pm

LithiumCobalt wrote:If your compressor is "new" the seals are probably no good if it has been sitting around a while. May have to explore replacing that before you assemble everything. Luckily they are reasonably priced.


Well, nothing is immune to the second law of thermodynamics, no; but the rate of deterioration can be reduced to a certain extent. The new compressor has not been out of its box nor out of this apartment since I got it. That won't stop its inevitable deterioration, but it can slow it a bit. Besides, I have a full bottle of mineral oil, enough to fill four compressors. I just wish I had thought of stashing my Duracool stock in the trunk when I went to Germany; that would have been easier to accept the shed fire. :smt011 Oh well, R-12 still exists, it's just severely regulated and ridiculously expensive...but available.

---Tony
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Re: The Sixty-One Will Freeze Your face Off!

Postby LithiumCobalt » Wed Jun 09, 2021 9:33 am

Yeah, R-12 is more expensive than the alternatives, but still not bad. It was about double the cost of R-134a when I had my car done (I think around $70/lb). A lot easier to stomach the cost, of course, if the system is leak-free and doesn't require a refill after two weeks. With our cars only needing 3.5lbs to get the job done, it's not too outrageous. It's a Lincoln - the AC must work.
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Re: The Sixty-One Will Freeze Your face Off!

Postby TonyC » Wed Jun 09, 2021 3:50 pm

I agree there, Nick! A Lincoln just isn't a Lincoln without A/C...preferably a working A/C.

---Tony
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Re: The Sixty-One Will Freeze Your face Off!

Postby rick » Thu Jun 10, 2021 11:21 am

The "vacuum motor" that opens and closes my drivers side fresh air vent is non-functional at the moment....... I think. This vacuum motor opens the flap on that vent.

So here was the problem last night driving the twenty miles home from Portland. We were soon too darn cold with the air conditioning even on low ...... and without it on, there is enough heat leaking past the heater flap to make the interior too hot very quickly. I don't necessarily want to put in a water valve to halt water circulation in the heater box like some of us here have done in the summertime because sometimes I will definitely need to defog the windshield at some point.

So last night we were either freezing or sweating on the way home and although she didn't say as much, I know my wife would be much more comfortable if the fresh air vents were working.

This drivers side vacuum motor is located high up, on the interior side of the left inner fender sidewall (bulkhead) inside the drivers compartment and is approximately opposite the drivers left knee (but higher up, at dash height to the left of the gas gauge). I needed to do some real gymnastic maneuvering (upside down on my back under the steering wheel with legs hanging over the front seat and head up under dash supported by three pillows) just to get near it. I watched the motor actuator arm intently while the the HVAC dial was moved to VENT and there was no reaction by the actuator arm. (The vacuum hose is well connected)

So I reached up inside the vent and was able to move the flap manually and open it up. At that point I got a load of rusty garbage and mouse nest dumped onto my face.... sigh. The flap itself is quite darn stiff to operate manually. Will need cleaning and lubrication.

So, I surmise that Job-One is to replace the "probably original" vacuum hose that connects this Vent Vacuum Motor to the Vacuum Manifold (located on the drivers-side passenger compartment firewall)..... and then cross my fingers.

Since the original Control Head has actually been working fine (go figure) when being rotated to control heat, defrost and also air conditioning........ I'm hoping it's not the Control Head's fault that we can't pull vacuum from those two Vent Motors. I'll update here after I lubricate the vent flap and replace that vacuum line.

Cheers

Rick

PS Here's a photo of the sixty-one in Portland last night.

'61 on early evening cruise.jpg
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Re: The Sixty-One Will Freeze Your face Off!

Postby action » Thu Jun 10, 2021 11:58 am

The humidity is 20% in Phoenix at the moment. Later today it is predicted to be about 5%. This year we have had no rain since March. While that does a number on drinking water, that kind of weather sucks out the life of rubber, vinyl, plastic and leather.

Every opportunity I get to work on any part of any vehicle, the last step is to look at any soft parts (Interior or exterior it does not really matter) and I wipe those parts down with Meguirs leather Conditioner
https://www.target.com/p/meguiars-15-2o ... 2aebda09c8

The stuff is cheap (under $10) works well and lasts, at least in Phoenix, for a long time. Other locations may not need the frequency that I do here however it does make an impact on how systems function that rely on seals, bushings or any time of soft part. Why a leather conditioner you may ask? Mostly because it is a single product I can use on everything instead of having multiple products. I have 3 vehicles with leather seats that get conditioned at least annually. I also use it on interior plastics, weather strips and seals. That vent door flap likely has rubber around the edge and the center may ride on a plastic bushing. Getting the rubber to be as flexible as possible may make the operation of that fresh air vent easier to accomplish.

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Re: The Sixty-One Will Freeze Your face Off!

Postby frasern » Thu Jun 10, 2021 1:27 pm

Hello Rick, that's a good looking boat. And the cabin cruiser behind it is nice too.
If you are changing the vacuum hose, the vac. motor can be checked at the same time. Push it open, then plug the hose to see if it holds open, no vac pump needed. Of course, after it's freed and lubed as noted above.
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Re: The Sixty-One Will Freeze Your face Off!

Postby TonyC » Thu Jun 10, 2021 1:37 pm

I think you need to check that servo (or "motor," as the shop manual would call it) for proper operation. I realize it will be a tough job to do, but it's necessary to determine whether an even tougher job would be called for. You need to attach a vacuum pump directly to the servo, apply a few pumps, and watch the gauge. If the gauge needle flutters before dropping back to 0 or doesn't move at all, then the servo has blown its diaphragm and needs to be replaced. I won't lie, finding a replacement will be tricky, to say nothing about the actual job based on your description. If, however, the needle holds at a reading noticeably above 0, then the servo is fine, meaning your former squatters did not damage it, at least. Replacing a chewed-up hose is easier than replacing an awkwardly-planted blown servo.

Or you can check it via Fraser's suggestion. It's just that, since I have a vacuum pump, I prefer that method.

I once had to replace the most difficult servo in Frankenstein, the one for the outside-recirculate hatch, because it blew out. That was no fun, and not a job I'm keen on repeating any time soon. I was lucky at least to pull a still-intact one from an organ donor.

---Tony
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Re: The Sixty-One Will Freeze Your face Off!

Postby frasern » Thu Jun 10, 2021 7:13 pm

I should clarify, my test is the easy(ish) function test, not a full diagnostic, just meant to see if it's working at all.
Another easy(ish) idea is to spray silicon lube in the system, as far as possible from the engine, and let the vacuum pull it through all the controls etc. to help soften them. There may be a more modern product which works better, but this is what we used "back in the day"
No offence Tony, I'm just questioning authority, like I was told!
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Re: The Sixty-One Will Freeze Your face Off!

Postby TonyC » Fri Jun 11, 2021 1:46 pm

:lol: Well, Fraser, my last name is not Fauci, so I'm not claiming any authority (not this time, anyway :D ). It's okay to question. Whatever the method, it is imperative for the OP to verify whether the servo in question can hold vacuum, if he wants his ventilation passages to operate properly.

---Tony
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Re: The Sixty-One Will Freeze Your face Off!

Postby rick » Fri Jun 11, 2021 10:23 pm

Well, thanks very much for the great advice and insight... as usual.

Today I once again crawled into the footwell and up under the drivers side dash. Reaching up with my left hand, I began trying to remove the vacuum line from the Servo that opens and closes the flap on the Fresh Air Vent. It's located on a bad angle for the fingers on my left hand to work effectively and since I'm not equipped with Popeye the Sailorman finger strength, I couldn't budge the damn vacuum hose one bit. It's like "welded" to the nipple on the Servo. Old age I guess (both for me and for the hose).

The vacuum hose will need to be cut off which I plan to do tomorrow (when the mosquitoes showed up I called it a night and reversed the car back into the garage). Tomorrow, I'll do a chain saw massacre on that vacuum hose if I have to. Then I'll run the new line (hose) back to the Vacuum Manifold located on the firewall (directly below where I had the pillows wedged for my head.) We'll see if that does anything and if it doesn't...... well, at least it's another section of vacuum line that's been re-newed.

Yanking the Fresh Air Vents from either side (drivers or passengers) for cleaning and lubrication let alone any necessary repairs is a combination of under the dash and also engine bay/firewall cowling operation. There are bolts that need to be accessed from both sides. I'll probably get my arms so badly tangled up in there, they'll need to call in the fire dept with the Jaws of Life to get me out.
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