Should I change 12k mile fluid?

[LC67Vert]

It seems like there are some folks discussing a POWER FLUSH versus a CHANGE of fluid. I suggest dropping the pan, thereby DRAINING the fluid, and also removing the drain plug in the torque converter to DRAIN as much fluid out as possible. With the pan down, inspect for any debris and clean the pan and replace the transmisssion filter screen. This is what I think of as a transmission fluid CHANGE. In my view this transmission service should be performed every 30,000 miles, or at least every 5 or 10 years. This will keep the fluid fresh and should give good service life of the transmission. If your transmission does not survive this type of service then it is definately time for a rebuild.

[John Mc]

I guess I would drive it and see what happens. Why? Because with such low mileage, dirt would not concern me as much as water. I'd drive it, though casually and get it hot enough and long enough to remove the water from condensation. If all is well at that point I would change it out and continue to do so every few years or every 30,000 miles. I've done this practice for my everyday cars and toy cars - no issues so far. Good luck.

[PinkLinc]

So what type of fluid should he use???

Sorry... couldn't help it.

[Castrosua]

of course water with detergent.... that will clean out a trans....

see what you started now lol

[Milsteads Garage]

I am astonished that some of you would put up an argument not to change it, unbelievable.

[LC67Vert]

Morgan, being in the business you are likely already aware that there are many people who believe that if the fluid has been in the transmission for many years or many miles, then changing it can introduce problems. The folks with this view feel that changing the fluid may dis-lodge sludge and debris which may cause the transmission to fail. In my opinion it is better to change the fluid, that is, drop the pan, inspect, clean or replace the filter screen, see what is lying on the bottom of the pan, look at the color and smell of the fluid, drain the torque converter, and re-fill with fresh fluid. If the trans fluid was bad, or there was a lot of sludge, or metal bits in the pan, then at least you know what you are dealing with. If after the fluid change the transmission fails, then you just have to bite the bullet and do a rebuild on it, which is going to cost from between several hundred to fifteen hundred dollars depending on the transmission and the parts needed during the rebuild.

[AnthLinc]

I personally had two bad experiences with a complete transmission drain. Both of my cars were around 8 years old and I drained a good deal of the fluid out of them. It was NOT power flushed. One car stared to slip but started to work fine for the rest of the time I had it. The other car's trans was shot. Transmissions are very delicate. I think it is best to just change just a few quarts at a time. I insalled a transmission pan with a drain plug on the Lincoln and I pull the plug one or teice a year. Since I stated doing this the fluid has become very clear but at a slow rate. Installing all new fluid is like a shock to the system.

[onedollarbob]

I am astonished that some of you would put up an argument not to change it, unbelievable.

Trust us, we speak from experience. 100k mile or 30 year old fluid is no longer transmission fluid--it's miracle sludge that's holding the transmission together with its own finely ground bits and pieces. Fluid changes are for properly maintained transmissions that have been serviced every 20/30k miles or so.

[Milsteads Garage]

And that's why they make seal conditioner is so you can change the fluid when you have transmissions like this. Ask Baker, he recommends using a transmission seal conditioner made by GM. Have you been inside one of these transmissions? I have. I have been in the dreaded twin range turbo drive before. A transmission rebuild course I took at Pima community college I rebuilt a C-6 as part of my course requirements. I can tell you the reason why old ones fail is because the o rings get hard in the clutch packs. This will happen especially with age and sitting. Once an clutch pack o-ring or any rubber piece fails to hold pressure the transmission will slip regardless whether the transmission fluid has been changed or it has the old fluid in it. The whole reason why you change fluid in the first place is to keep metal particulates from getting into the seals and eroding them as they move. I used to believe in your way of not changing the fluid until I learned what I know.

[LC67Vert]

Morgan, do you know the name of the transmission seal conditioner made by GM that can be used in our Lincoln transmisssions, and also where it can be found?

[John Mc]

And that's why they make seal conditioner is so you can change the fluid when you have transmissions like this. Ask Baker, he recommends using a transmission seal conditioner made by GM. Have you been inside one of these transmissions? I have. I have been in the dreaded twin range turbo drive before. A transmission rebuild course I took at Pima community college I rebuilt a C-6 as part of my course requirements. I can tell you the reason why old ones fail is because the o rings get hard in the clutch packs. This will happen especially with age and sitting. Once an clutch pack o-ring or any rubber piece fails to hold pressure the transmission will slip regardless whether the transmission fluid has been changed or it has the old fluid in it. The whole reason why you change fluid in the first place is to keep metal particulates from getting into the seals and eroding them as they move. I used to believe in your way of not changing the fluid until I learned what I know.

Morgan, great response. Looks like you know what you are writing about. May I ask you something? My '54 Capri shifts hard1-2 (GM Hydromatic). The more I drive it the better it seems to be getting, could this be due to dry seals? Any other tips? Thanks.

[Milsteads Garage]

I believe all the shift points are controlled by your throttle valve rod that is attached between your accelerator linkage and your transmission. This also applies to the turbo drives 1960 and down. You have to adjust this rod accordingly using a pressure guage to get everything set up right. I believe if the throttle valve rod is too long it will cause a hard shift. This would be where I would check first is to make sure all base pressures are in order. It also is possible to have a sticking governor as well. If it is getting better when you drive it that is a good thing.

LC67Vert , GM (General Motors) - 88861314 - GM Automatic Transmission Seal Conditioner - 11 Oz. Container-this is the one that Baker's auto recommended to me many years ago. There are also other types like Lucas or any other ones at your local parts store. What this stuff does is makes your seals pliable again, with slipping transmissions it might buy you some time. It may help-or it may do nothing. You can also google GM Automatic Transmission Seal Conditioner and read the various discussions on what some people have to say about it on the GM forums.

[John Mc]

Thank you Morgan.

[autostick]

I am compelled to add my 100K transmission fluid change experience to this thread. I had the dealer change the tranny fluid in my 100,000 mile Ford Windstar. A few thousand miles later the transmission failed completely, requiring a reman replacement. I then noticed the dealer invoice specified 6 quarts of tranny fluid, whereas the capacity of this transmission was 12 quarts.

A protracted letter writing campaign ensued. The dealer claimed he was running a 2 for 1 special and only charged me for 6 quarts as the other 6, totaling 12, were gratis. I questioned his assertion that he gave me 6 "free" quarts without ever mentioning it. The dealer also said "the Windstars unfortunately have a higher than normal transmission failure rate" and refused to take any responsibility for the failure, and told me to write the FMC Customer Assistance Center in Dearborn.

All letters to Dearborn went unanswered. The dealer at least answered my letters, but the last one he sent was a doozie. He wrote "I did the research that I suggested you do and have enclosed it with this letter." Much to my amazement he included photocopies of a cartrackers.com forum with the running title ALL WINDSTARS ARE LEMONS.

I sent copies of the dealer's letter with the "windstar lemon" attachments to Jac Nasser, Jim Schroer, Bob Rewey, Richard Parry-Jones, etc, (basically, the CEO and Executive Board of Ford Motor Co). I related the history, repeated the continuous quality improvement lessons I received at the Fairlane Training & Development Center, and most important, expressed concern about a dealer who sends his Ford owners a message that states all Windstars are lemons, hoping for the sake of stockholders this practice is not widespread. I also mentioned the quality build of my Lincoln from an era when Ford was a global quality leader.

Soon after that I received a letter with a voucher for $3000 toward any new Ford vehicle. With this I purchased my first new car ever, after a lifetime of auto auctions or used private purchases. I am pleased to say the replacement Ford Windstar was very well built, dependable, and went over 100,000 before being totaled by a red light runner. Even in its death, it protected the occupants who walked away from a quality vehicle.

Ergo, I would change, not flush, the tranny fluid but I would definitely do it myself.

[Milsteads Garage]

I am not trying to sound like a know it all or a has-been, but I worked for a ford dealership in the late 1990's when the Windstar was first coming out. Now granted I was fresh out of high school and was working as a lube-tire tech, but all front wheel drive Fords built during the 1990's and 2000's was a piece of junk. I also hate the pick up trucks with a power stroke engine. Getting back to the cars and mini-vans, what you mentioned with dealers and cars being a lemon was absolutely true.There were numerous class action law suits against engines, transmissions and safety related items. There were so many recall items backing up the repair lines I was promoted just to help do the smaller ones. There was a recall for any 3.8 liter V-6 cars for head gasket failures and the dealer wouldn't always cover all of them. Transmissions were constantly failing. Windstars, Taurus, Contours, and Power stroke diesel trucks constantly clogged the repair lines. Some Contour cars would catch fire and burn to the ground because of a blower rheostat. Their air bag sensors didn't work and I changed out hundreds of those. If you had good luck with a Windstar, you were in a small percentile of people.

I am also against machine power flushing. No matter what the fluid is still contaminated because the new fluid going back in mixes with the dirty fluid in the pan as it exits the return cooler line. It also does nothing for a dirty transmission filter. It's an easy money maker for anyone selling it as it does not require as much labor to hook the machine up as doing an actual transmission service.