Changing oil & filter on my 67...

This forum is exclusively to address ATF fluids, their applications, etc. Feel free to discuss the "facts", but save the flaming for private. Please ask all other transmission-related questions (such as parts) in the Engine & Drivetrain forum.
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TonyC
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Re: Changing oil & filter on my 67...

Post by TonyC »

They always like to use finny language in the warnings. The caution should read, "Do not use in GM, Chrysler, or certain Ford transmissions where DEXRON®-type, ATF+4®, ATF+3®, MERCON®V or MERCON® fluids are specified...unless you have the cash to buy a replacement transmission." :D
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Re: Changing oil & filter on my 67...

Post by ekm330 »

:smt017

OK. So now I am even more confused....
KULTULZ wrote:
TYPE F was not introduced until 1968.
The "Lubrication Recommendations" section of my '67 owner's manual (page 72) for transmission states: "Rotunda Auto. Trans. Fluid MC233-D Type F"

It also states the same thing for power steering pump reservoir. (Type F is readily available from the auto parts stores near me, so that is what I have used to top off the reservoir.)



Also, these arguments seem contradictory...

KULTULZ wrote:
KULTULZ wrote:
Rule of thumb- One may use TYPE F in a DEXRON application but not the other way around.

If one is unsure of whether the trans has been rebuilt using later tech (1968-1980), one can USE TYPE F even though DEXRON is recommeded for the rebuild. The TYPE F will most likely deliver a quicker and firmer shift. If you introduce DEXRON into a TYPE F application, trans failure will most likely follow.
TonyC wrote:They always like to use finny language in the warnings. The caution should read, "Do not use in GM, Chrysler, or certain Ford transmissions where DEXRON®-type, ATF+4®, ATF+3®, MERCON®V or MERCON® fluids are specified...unless you have the cash to buy a replacement transmission." :D
So you cannot use Type F if your rebuilt tranny was refilled with Dexron?

:?: :|

I am about to have my transmission pulled to replace the front seal and other o-rings and seals and when I asked what type of fluid he would use he said "Dexron". I am like many owners who do not have info about whether the transmission was rebuilt and, if so, what fluid was used.

I dont know what's in it currently, but it upshifts seamlessly, goes through the gears like buttah whether hot or cold and always without complaint. After reading all these posts on ATF variations and the horrors that can happen if you use the wrong stuff, I am really sketched out about performing surgery on my tranny and giving it the wrong transfusion :shock:

Is there any way to tell what's in it? Does Dexron smell different than Type F? (Type F out of the bottle has a very distinct smell)
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Re: Changing oil & filter on my 67...

Post by KULTULZ »

ekm330 wrote:
:smt017

OK. So now I am even more confused....
Join the club...
ekm330 further wrote:
The "Lubrication Recommendations" section of my '67 owner's manual (page 72) for transmission states: "Rotunda Auto. Trans. Fluid MC233-D Type F"

It also states the same thing for power steering pump reservoir. (Type F is readily available from the auto parts stores near me, so that is what I have used to top off the reservoir.)
This is the FORD (ROTUNDA) equivalent of DEXRON)
M2C33.jpg
TYPE F has an I.D. No. MC233-F


TSB Date- 9-12-67

Image

ekm330 again wrote:
Also, these arguments seem contradictory...
KULTULZ previously wrote:
Rule of thumb- One may use TYPE F in a DEXRON application but not the other way around.

If one is unsure of whether the trans has been rebuilt using later tech (1968-1980), one can USE TYPE F even though DEXRON is recommeded for the rebuild.

The TYPE F will most likely deliver a quicker and firmer shift. If you introduce DEXRON into a TYPE F application, trans failure will most likely follow.
TonyC wrote:They always like to use finny language in the warnings. The caution should read, "Do not use in GM, Chrysler, or certain Ford transmissions where DEXRON®-type, ATF+4®, ATF+3®, MERCON®V or MERCON® fluids are specified...unless you have the cash to buy a replacement transmission." :D
So you cannot use Type F if your rebuilt tranny was refilled with Dexron?

:?: :|
Ask Tony. He is the one that made the contradictory statement.
I am about to have my transmission pulled to replace the front seal and other o-rings and seals and when I asked what type of fluid he would use he said "Dexron". I am like many owners who do not have info about whether the transmission was rebuilt and, if so, what fluid was used.

I dont know what's in it currently, but it upshifts seamlessly, goes through the gears like buttah whether hot or cold and always without complaint. After reading all these posts on ATF variations and the horrors that can happen if you use the wrong stuff, I am really sketched out about performing surgery on my tranny and giving it the wrong transfusion :shock:

Is there any way to tell what's in it? Does Dexron smell different than Type F? (Type F out of the bottle has a very distinct smell)
Yours used DEXRON (or the FOMOCO marketing equivalent used then). You can also use TYPE F.
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Re: Changing oil & filter on my 67...

Post by TonyC »

Hell no, don't ask me! I invoke Article 31 of the UCMJ on this!
"Don't believe everything you read on the Internet, just because there is a picture with a quote next to it." (Abraham Lincoln, 1866)
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Re: Changing oil & filter on my 67...

Post by ekm330 »

No worries. I put about a quart of Dot 3 brake fluid in the tranny and the leak stopped :grin:




:shock:
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Re: Changing oil & filter on my 67...

Post by TonyC »

Brake fluid in the tranny? And it worked! That's different! Congratulations!
"Don't believe everything you read on the Internet, just because there is a picture with a quote next to it." (Abraham Lincoln, 1866)
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Re: Changing oil & filter on my 67...

Post by ekm330 »

TonyC wrote:Brake fluid in the tranny? And it worked! That's different! Congratulations!
I was kidding :oops: . Never put brake fluid into a transmission. While it will cause the seals to swell and reduce or eliminate leaks, it's only temporary. It will destroy the transmission :shock: !
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Re: Changing oil & filter on my 67...

Post by Dan Szwarc »

KULTULZ wrote:TYPE F was not introduced until 1968.
This above quote is not exactly what Gary said.
The original quote is here:
KULTULZ wrote:TYPE F (FORD M2C33-F) was not introduced until the 1968 model year.
Type F already existed before 1968.

My 1966 uses Type F to specification M2C33-D, which is Ford PN C1AZ-19582-X (Dunno the final letter).

Remember that M2C33-X fluids are all Type F. it's just that the spec was revised incrementing the final leter numerous times in the 60s and 70s.

I found this here:
MolaKule wrote:In 1959 Ford issued the M2C33-A/B specification. Nothing is known about that additive package.

In 1961, Ford issued the M2C33-C/D specification. Nothing much is know (at this time) about its additive package.

In 1967 and 1972, GM issued the Dexron specification which contained 3,500 ppm of phosphorus, 3,200 ppm of zinc, 7,500 ppm of nitrogen, 3,200 ppm of sulfur, and 4,500 ppm of Calcium. This additive package was 10.5% of the total fluid volume. The 1972 formulation specified better oxidation and Friction Modification.

In 1967, Ford introduced the M2C33- F “Type – F’” fluid which contained 12,000 ppm of phosphorus, 4,200 ppm of zinc, 4,000 ppm of Nitrogen, and 800 ppm of Barium.
This additive package was 9% of the total fluid volume.
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Re: Changing oil & filter on my 67...

Post by TonyC »

I was kidding . Never put brake fluid into a transmission.
Damn, psyched again! Now I know I've spent too much time out here! :smt075

I think Dan's explanation has helped to clear up the confusion; it sure has for me, and actually confirms the fundamentals of what I always believed. Thanks, Dan. :)

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Re: Changing oil & filter on my 67...

Post by tsa »

This is a great post, what I take from it is that the C6 trans used prior to 68 takes M2C33-D where the ones after and including 68 use M2C33-F (commonly refered to as type F). This is because Ford used asbestos in the trans that required M2C33-F.

Now if the trans required M2C33-D you can use as Dexron type oil (can also use Type F type). If your trans uses M2C33-D it can also use Mercon and Mercon V (which are synthetic). the only catch is you need to know whether your trans was rebuilt and if it used the asbestos products or not, asbestos use M2C33-F.

Is this all correct, I am about to flush my trans, fix the leaks etc and was thinking on using Mercon V.

Thanks
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Re: Changing oil & filter on my 67...

Post by Dan Szwarc »

tsa wrote:This is a great post, what I take from it is that the C6 trans used prior to 68 takes M2C33-D where the ones after and including 68 use M2C33-F (commonly refered to as type F). This is because Ford used asbestos in the trans that required M2C33-F.
Nope. M2C233-A/B/C/D/E/F is all type F. The F is the M2C33 not the -F!
Now if the trans required M2C33-D you can use as Dexron type oil (can also use Type F type). If your trans uses M2C33-D it can also use Mercon and Mercon V (which are synthetic). the only catch is you need to know whether your trans was rebuilt and if it used the asbestos products or not, asbestos use M2C33-F.

Is this all correct, I am about to flush my trans, fix the leaks etc and was thinking on using Mercon V.
The directly above quote is incorrect. Dexron/Mercon is Ford Spec. M2C128-CJ! M2C233-D is Type F revision D!

It's somewhere here, but what I have found on spec revisions on fluid is that A & B are the same except A is clear and B is red. The same is true for C being clear and D being Red and now E & F.
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