Continental conversion!......Sinatra salvation?

Any Lincoln fact related question can be posted here. Questions such as how many Contintenal convertibles were produced in MY1965? How much was the Town Car option in 1969? What size of tire was standard on a 1953 Premiere? or Does the Mark II retractible prototype still exist?

Moderator: Dan Szwarc

KhurtG
Occasional Visitor
Posts: 38
Joined: Tue Aug 28, 2007 12:31 pm
Location: Valencia, Ca.
Contact:

Continental conversion!......Sinatra salvation?

Post by KhurtG »

I would like to confess here in the bastion of Lincoln Continental loyalty and reverence that I have always been a muscle car enthusiest and never thought that I would own a "Lincoln" ....Much less a "Continental". My conversion from the fast and furious to the slow and cool has been relentless perfectly timed and with flawless entonation. A few months back I became the very reluctant owner of a 1956 Continental Mark II. An old freind had fallen on some hard times and I attempted to take on more than I could handle in helping him out of his predicament, $ 25K later I was the proud owner of this......

Image

I had them tow it into our seudo riche, home owners association laiden, parking rules aplenty neighborhood. The damn thing wouldn't in my garage (they don't make them like they used to) so I pannicked and had them leave it out front blocking the neighbor's lake view....

Image

By this time my wife had already set out the blankets and my alarm clock next to the couch where I would be residing for the forseable future. As best I could figure it I had a $10,000.00 car which I had paid $25,000.00 for and all 4800 lbs of it were sitting in the front of our house ready to be hauled away to the nearest impound. The next morning the neighor lady with the Porsche, H3, and the "older" husband at the end of the block was standing outside in her jogging outfit talking on the cell phone. About 20minutes later I got the first "advisory" from the home owners association that the car didn't have tags. This went on for two more days until I was able to get the thing out of my front yard and to a storage yard. I think the only thing that saved me was the possibility that they had to send for a special tow truck.

When I came out of my depression and managed to start thinking straight I decided that I would do some research on the car do a once over restoration on it and try to salvage my money, my dignity, my social standing, and .... oh yes my marriage too......

Image

I got ahold of a guy that told me that the car was owned by <<<<<<Frank Sinatra>>>>>> I swallowed hard took a deep breath and said the most brilliant thing that came to mind >>> "You mean the singer?" >>>>>> "Is there another?" he replied. He was right, there is no other and there never will be. After doing extensive research on the Mark II and it's history I've been converted by the gentle tone of it's lines, it's eleganance with a hint of danger, and by designers who had the courage to go their own way in an era better known for conformity than inovation. This it seems to me is what the Mark II's legacy truely is...... Is'nt that a perfect description of <<<<<<"The Chairman">>> ? Could this be the perfect blending of car and personality that would result in the perfect storm of technical genius and artistic excellence exploding into a burst of value laiden machinery?????? Translation: Does it make the car worth more, and can I keep my wife? On the other hand could this be a mirage on the horizon of a desperate man who has lost his way in the Nevada desert only to commit further to an enterprise that will result in a pile of sunbleached bones and a maxed out credit line with no hope of recovery?????

My question to all of you Lincoln and Continental experts out there is simple....... Now that I have converted and become a true believer in the Continental legend if I dump another $40,000 - 50,000 is this project my salvation or am I doomed to become a socially outcast, divorced, empoverished, yet happy owner living in a beautiful 1956 Mark II Continental with the coolest pedigree ever?

Let me know what you think soon because she's been poking her nose into the checking accounts and I don't know how long I can last.

KhurtG
Owner of the coolest rust bucket on the planet.
User avatar
continentalguy
Addicted to Lincolns
Posts: 1597
Joined: Wed Oct 25, 2006 7:29 pm
Location: Bloomington, IN
Contact:

Re: Continental conversion!......Sinatra salvation?

Post by continentalguy »

Hey Khurt I think that you are doing the right thing it deserves to be restored. It will be really neat when done and you will always have a story to tell and at least you know who it was owned by and that he was FAMOUS! Keep us updated on all you do I love to hear about Mark II restorations. Tell your wife this is history you can't destroy history.
-Allan

'54 Lincoln Capri Sport Coupe, '56 Continental Mark II, '61 Lincoln Continental Convertible,
'62 Lincoln Continental Sedan, '70 Lincoln Mark III, '72 Lincoln Mark IV, '17 Lincoln MKC
al8apex
Newbie
Posts: 10
Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2007 5:36 pm
Contact:

Re: Continental conversion!......Sinatra salvation?

Post by al8apex »

look at how much money Elvis cars get

I would think the Chairmans car is worth quite a bit more than any other black air conditioned Mark II

now you can play sleuth and hunt down pics of him with his (now your) car

IMHO, all the $$$$$ you "invest" to restore your car is money well spent

just do not spend it with a "hack" or someone that does not know the cars

that answers the question on where HIS car is now

if your wife knows who the Chariman is I would have to assume you can keep her ... or she will keep you as it usually is ...

googling the "frank sinatra continental Mark II" brought up your website for the restoration:

http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2893470

not sure why, but there is a disc brake master cylinder on the cowl.. did someone convert it before you got it?
Last edited by al8apex on Sat Sep 29, 2007 11:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
Jim Rohn
Scottsdale, AZ
KhurtG
Occasional Visitor
Posts: 38
Joined: Tue Aug 28, 2007 12:31 pm
Location: Valencia, Ca.
Contact:

Re: Hazard a guess?

Post by KhurtG »

From an amateur's perspective I was figuring about $120k. Would you agree?
User avatar
toddallen
TLFer for Life
Posts: 10640
Joined: Tue Apr 27, 2004 1:01 am
Location: Salem, OR
Contact:

Re: Continental conversion!......Sinatra salvation?

Post by toddallen »

Have you verified the your findings with the factory Continental's records of the era? Invoices can be easily reproduced, you would need to be certain before dumping a ton of cash into this car.

Barry could point you to the right direction on getting this information from the archives.
1963 Linc Convertible
1963 Linc Vert parts car
1968 Mustang FB
2009 Cadillac CTS
User avatar
Barry Wolk
TLFer for Life
Posts: 10877
Joined: Sun Nov 24, 2002 1:01 am
Location: Farmington Hills, Michigan
Contact:

Re: Hazard a guess?

Post by Barry Wolk »

KhurtG wrote:From an amateur's perspective I was figuring about $120k. Would you agree?
No. Top Mark II's are bringing $80K. Top restorations are expensive on a Mark II. Chrome alone will kill you.

Would I pay $20,000 more for one of the Chairman's Mark II. Maybe, but not $40K more.

However, if you can prove a rumor about Sammy Davis Jr. getting his Mark II through Sinatra and this proves to be the car, then you have a piece of history on your hands.

I will tell you that I have gone through the Continental records I've never found a reference to Sammy Davis Jr. I have found a number of letters from people who felt they may be of too low a social standing to buy a Mark II asking for permission to purchase one. The standard answer was that Continental had no restriction on who could buy one. That was good to see.

If you want to obtain the Production Order for your car look at the http://michiganlcoc.org site and look under Projects. If the car was actually ordered for Frank Sinatra that information would also likely be on the Production Order. Another piece of provenance never hurts.
'56 Mark II convertible, '51 Royal Spartanette, '56 Chris Craft Continental
'68 Lincoln Continental Limo, '77 Town Car, '55 356 Porsche Continental cabrio,
'69 Mark III convertible,'88 BMW 750iL, '88 BMW 325iX, '97 BMW Z-3, '98 ML-320

My newest car is 15 years old!
KhurtG
Occasional Visitor
Posts: 38
Joined: Tue Aug 28, 2007 12:31 pm
Location: Valencia, Ca.
Contact:

Re: Continental conversion!......Sinatra salvation?

Post by KhurtG »

toddallen wrote:Have you verified the your findings with the factory Continental's records of the era? Invoices can be easily reproduced, you would need to be certain before dumping a ton of cash into this car.

Barry could point you to the right direction on getting this information from the archives.
I got a copy of the "Dealer Invoice" from Mark ii in Riverside and I also got a copy of the "Production Order" from the Henry Ford Museum. They also sent a copy of a letter from the VP of Beverly Hills Lincoln Mercury that seems to cooborate the other documents. Do you know of another source where I could get some additional information? ... DMV records or other.

Do you think that this level of documentation would be enough to convince an auction house or other skeptical crowd in case I needed to unload the car?

Any idea of the possible value if it is jenuine? If it's not over $110k I'm not sure that it would make sense.

How do I contact Barry?

Image
Dealer Invoice from Mark ii Inc.

Image
Serial # Plate

Image
Production order obtained from Benson Ford Research Center

Image
Letter from the VP of B.H. Lincoln Mercury to Ford Motor Co. describing the car.
User avatar
Barry Wolk
TLFer for Life
Posts: 10877
Joined: Sun Nov 24, 2002 1:01 am
Location: Farmington Hills, Michigan
Contact:

Re: Continental conversion!......Sinatra salvation?

Post by Barry Wolk »

I would say that those documents should be more than anyone could want. Congratulations.

If you're trying to make money on a restoration you'll probably be the first person to do it using other's labor. Everything will cost twice as much and take twice as long as you think. There's a club member that has $180,000 in his Mark II restoration.

However, there are people out there that might pay you what you have in it now so you can walk away whole. I'm not saying you should bail, I'm just saying could bail before you get in too deep.

Car restorations play havoc on relationships. I'm sure many here will attest to that. They see the checks going out but don't see the progress. It's difficult for people that don't understand, to start understanding.
'56 Mark II convertible, '51 Royal Spartanette, '56 Chris Craft Continental
'68 Lincoln Continental Limo, '77 Town Car, '55 356 Porsche Continental cabrio,
'69 Mark III convertible,'88 BMW 750iL, '88 BMW 325iX, '97 BMW Z-3, '98 ML-320

My newest car is 15 years old!
User avatar
Barry Wolk
TLFer for Life
Posts: 10877
Joined: Sun Nov 24, 2002 1:01 am
Location: Farmington Hills, Michigan
Contact:

Re: Continental conversion!......Sinatra salvation?

Post by Barry Wolk »

It looks like that letter is from son to father.
'56 Mark II convertible, '51 Royal Spartanette, '56 Chris Craft Continental
'68 Lincoln Continental Limo, '77 Town Car, '55 356 Porsche Continental cabrio,
'69 Mark III convertible,'88 BMW 750iL, '88 BMW 325iX, '97 BMW Z-3, '98 ML-320

My newest car is 15 years old!
User avatar
linc64
TLFer for Life
Posts: 6215
Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2004 1:01 am
Location: Costa Mesa, Ca.
Contact:

Re: Continental conversion!......Sinatra salvation?

Post by linc64 »

Great car, great story! Congratulations!! I say keep it, restore it, and enjoy owning it. Very cool. 8)
Jim Ayres
Western Region Director
Photobucket link blocked by PB
Join the LCOC
Join the Lincoln Motorcar Foundation
User avatar
ReijerLincoln
Lincoln-ally Insane
Posts: 4939
Joined: Thu Jan 06, 2005 7:15 am
Location: The Netherlands
Contact:

Re: Continental conversion!......Sinatra salvation?

Post by ReijerLincoln »

Very interesting story (funny side notes too)!

Why not get together with another MkII owner that knows the car in and out to asses what part of the restoration process you can DIY? Doing whatever work you can should save a ton of money.
1964 Lincoln Continental sedan

http://bigfancycar.blogspot.nl/
User avatar
continentalguy
Addicted to Lincolns
Posts: 1597
Joined: Wed Oct 25, 2006 7:29 pm
Location: Bloomington, IN
Contact:

Re: Continental conversion!......Sinatra salvation?

Post by continentalguy »

So how is the restoration going on the Sinatra car any pictures?
-Allan

'54 Lincoln Capri Sport Coupe, '56 Continental Mark II, '61 Lincoln Continental Convertible,
'62 Lincoln Continental Sedan, '70 Lincoln Mark III, '72 Lincoln Mark IV, '17 Lincoln MKC
User avatar
Dan Szwarc
Site Admin
Posts: 29775
Joined: Fri Jun 16, 2000 1:01 am
Contact:

Re: Continental conversion!......Sinatra salvation?

Post by Dan Szwarc »

The Chairman is a great name for the car.
fkhill
Lincoln Maniac
Posts: 282
Joined: Sat Nov 05, 2005 11:33 am
Contact:

Re: Continental conversion!......Sinatra salvation?

Post by fkhill »

That is going to be a great car. Does anyone know if he always drove Lincolns? Any other Sinatra Lincolns out there? I wonder what his last car was?
User avatar
linc64
TLFer for Life
Posts: 6215
Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2004 1:01 am
Location: Costa Mesa, Ca.
Contact:

Re: Continental conversion!......Sinatra salvation?

Post by linc64 »

To see what Sinatra drove, check this out:
http://www.motortrend.com/classic/featu ... k_vehicles
Jim Ayres
Western Region Director
Photobucket link blocked by PB
Join the LCOC
Join the Lincoln Motorcar Foundation
Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest