I am back at it again!!! Question?

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I am back at it again!!! Question?

Postby Newchapters » Tue Nov 23, 2021 3:16 pm

Hey everyone!! I had to step away from my 1962 after getting burnt out from working on it everyday and night. I am back at it again and happing to get it back on the road again this spring. I have been chipping away at little stuff here and there and am amazed how much work people get done on their cars and what great work they do. I wanted to asked can a 1959 Thunderbird 430 be used in my 1962 Lincoln? I see its the same 430 engine besides the intake manifold. I will be posting pictures soon and thanks for all your help.
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Re: I am back at it again!!! Question?

Postby action » Tue Nov 23, 2021 3:37 pm

That Thunderbird 430 should fit easily into your '62.
In 1962 the Lincoln would have had a 2 BBl carb and manifold.
If you are getting a 4BBL you will get a lil more power

Of note, the 430 was optional in Thunderbird only for 1959 & 1960 model years. Making it the only Ford to get a MEL engine.

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Re: I am back at it again!!! Question?

Postby Newchapters » Tue Nov 23, 2021 8:40 pm

I been reading that the 430 was used in special ordered Thunderbird. Soneone is selling a rebuilt 1959 430 with a c6 trans mated to it. I know parts are getting harder to come by and prices keep going up.
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Re: I am back at it again!!! Question?

Postby Newchapters » Tue Nov 23, 2021 8:40 pm

I been reading that the 430 was used in special ordered Thunderbird. Soneone is selling a rebuilt 1959 430 with a c6 trans mated to it. I know parts are getting harder to come by and prices keep going up.
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Re: I am back at it again!!! Question?

Postby frasern » Tue Nov 23, 2021 9:16 pm

Are you sure it's a C6? That could be a problem.
C6 was released in '66, slanted bell housing. longer I think, and different drive shaft. Possible interference with "62 AC. Even more issues if it's a 390 C6.
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Re: I am back at it again!!! Question?

Postby Newchapters » Tue Nov 23, 2021 10:24 pm

Yes he said c6 and I agree I didn't see any 430 with a c6. He said both 430 and c6 is rebuilt and never used and was mated up with engine. I wanted to see if the c6 would fit into my 1962 without having to cut the trans tunnel. I was going to do an ls swap and found out you had to do a 6l80 or smaller trans if you didn't want to cut the trans tunnel
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Re: I am back at it again!!! Question?

Postby action » Tue Nov 23, 2021 11:01 pm

There was no 430 MEL engine that ever had a C6.
Last year for 430 was 1965.
First year for C6 was 1966

Pretty sure the guy doesn't know the difference between a C6 and some other automatic
Or the engine is a 462 with a C6. The 462 and 430 are the same block and look very much the same.
And a 462 would be a step towards even more power

If it is a C6
The case length is right at 20 inches
The C6 won't be a drop in. Some modification would be needed.
Shift linkage will be different
Output shaft splines will be different
Distance from back of transmission to rear axle will be different
Mounting will be similar just not exact

It is usually the details that become the head ache.

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Last edited by action on Tue Nov 23, 2021 11:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Phoenix - Yeah, it's hot, however it's a dry heat
2006 Lincoln Navigator Limited 5.4l 3V
1996 Lincoln Mark VIII 2DR Coupe Diamond Anniversary 4.6l DOHC, 4R70W, 3.07
1970 Continental Mark III Triple Black 460 4v, C6, 2.80 (Used for Woodward Dream Cruise or just generally stored in Michigan)
1966 Lincoln Continental 4DR Convertible 462 4v, C6, 3.00
1966 Mercury Park Lane 4DR Breezeway 410 4v, C6, 2.80
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Re: I am back at it again!!! Question?

Postby frasern » Tue Nov 23, 2021 11:14 pm

Anything can be done, but it will be an adventure. The bolt pattern is different on a 462, which will take a C6 or PCA. I think the 430 and FE have the same bolt pattern, so it could have that. Find out what you have, Then do a lot of measuring. The Lincoln trans. has a smaller bell housing than the FE. Without A.C. you have lots of clearance there. With A.C. it's tight. Drive shaft and trans mounts will need fabrication.
Swaps are not my area, so I'm not very good on fabrication answers.
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Re: I am back at it again!!! Question?

Postby Newchapters » Tue Nov 23, 2021 11:46 pm

thanks and a lot of great information. The whole reason I would get this 1959 430 would be to be able to just replace my 1962 430 at a better price than they want to rebuild it but now its starting to look like I would have to do a lot more, not just drop it in. Modification of drive train, mounts, and other stuff. I know now that owing a Lincoln is not a poor mans car. saw this online

One of the main issues with the MEL series engines used in these Lincolns is that they used three different bell housings depending on the year. The early 383, 410, and 430 MEL engines from 1958 through 1960 used the same bell housing pattern as the FE series engines 332, 352, 390, 406, 410, 427, 428.

From 1961 through 1965 the Lincoln 430 used a modified FE pattern. The starter location was moved to clear the new for 1961 Lincoln unitized chassis. That pattern looks like this on the back of the block :
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Re: I am back at it again!!! Question?

Postby papawayne » Wed Nov 24, 2021 5:21 am

I'm with Action. The seller may not know a C6 from sea sick. Lots of people like to tell me that I have a C6 in my 63....Wayne
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Re: I am back at it again!!! Question?

Postby TonyC » Wed Nov 24, 2021 5:26 am

Yes, I concur with the other vets' comments. Although the rudimentary design is the same, there were numerous modifications done by the factory every few years, meaning it will not be a simple "drop-in" matter. In fact, nothing on these cars is a simple "drop-in," unless the component being dropped in is absolutely identical to the component being dropped out.

The seller of that Squarebird very likely doesn't know what he's talking about, unless he did mods he's now trying to hide. I think you might be better off rebuilding what you have than sinking the same amount or more in mods, which are tricky and costly with these cars. There is something, though, that may be possible to do with relative ease. If you can get your hands on a 462 intake, you may be able to drop that onto your current engine; if memory serves, the intake ports of the 462 are the same size as the 2-barrel intake used on the 430 in '62.

I don't believe the Squarebird was the only non-Lincoln to use the MEL; Edsels and some Mercury models offered the 430 also as optional-extra engines (ergo, the acronym). How many were actually given those engines, I don't know if anyone alive knows; the Squarebirds were the most-known of the non-Lincoln cars to use the MEL.

---Tony
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Re: I am back at it again!!! Question?

Postby frasern » Wed Nov 24, 2021 8:37 am

I wasn't aware of that "61 bolt pattern mod. If you have a picture, the C6 is an all aluminum, one piece design, where the PCA has an iron body, with a separate aluminum bell housing. If you have an engine in the car, it may be in better shape than you think, worth a teardown and inspection.
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Re: I am back at it again!!! Question?

Postby Newchapters » Wed Nov 24, 2021 11:41 pm

Ok he is going to try and get the codes of the engine and trans. He says that 1958-1960 Thunderbird 430 do mount up to a c6. and I would have to get a new drive shaft and maybe move trans mount but it would be way cheaper than an LS swap. I was going to get my car engine rebuilt before for 5000k but I just had someone look at it and they wanted 10k with out a carb,efi or exhaust manifolds. So around 11-12k for EFI and New Exhaust manifolds with rebuild. Craziness.

Check out this website. Person made adapter to mount to 430.
https://transmissionadapters.com/collec ... ln-mercury
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Re: I am back at it again!!! Question?

Postby action » Thu Nov 25, 2021 12:06 am

Newchapters wrote:Ok he is going to try and get the codes of the engine and trans. He says that 1958-1960 Thunderbird 430 do mount up to a c6. and I would have to get a new drive shaft and maybe move trans mount


Have a picture of it?
If not have the seller send you a picture.

The C6 and Turbo-Drive do not look the same at all

BTW the 430 was not available in 1958 for Thunderbird

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Phoenix - Yeah, it's hot, however it's a dry heat
2006 Lincoln Navigator Limited 5.4l 3V
1996 Lincoln Mark VIII 2DR Coupe Diamond Anniversary 4.6l DOHC, 4R70W, 3.07
1970 Continental Mark III Triple Black 460 4v, C6, 2.80 (Used for Woodward Dream Cruise or just generally stored in Michigan)
1966 Lincoln Continental 4DR Convertible 462 4v, C6, 3.00
1966 Mercury Park Lane 4DR Breezeway 410 4v, C6, 2.80
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Re: I am back at it again!!! Question?

Postby TonyC » Thu Nov 25, 2021 4:33 am

Again I concur with Action: Have the seller back up his claim with pictures. Over the years many vets on this Forum with more experience on these engines than even I have all stated definitively that the 430 block will not mate directly to the C-6 transmission, not without a special adapter. The bolt patterns are incompatible; maybe two or three bolts may line up, but that is only a best guess. The 462 block, on the other hand, can mate up to either the C-6 or the PCA transmission; it may have been meant to be a service replacement for 430-equipped cars in the event of an engine failure, IDK. But it has bolt patterns for both in its rear. I can confirm this; there are 12 bolt holes in the back of the 462, only 8 of which are actually used in the standard 1966/7/8 setup.

I suspect the seller is either wrong or deceptive in his claim...but for diplomacy's sake, don't tell him that without calling his bluff with a request for visual aids to back up his claim. You don't need to be surprised with an unpleasant discovery after you have committed to such a deal, only to learn that you may need to take up drug-dealing to cover the "K" needed to finish that job.

---Tony
"Don't believe everything you read on the Internet, just because there is a picture with a quote next to it." (Abraham Lincoln, 1866)
"Question Authority!"

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