Engine Still Stalling!

Engine, fuel system, cooling system, heating, carburetors, exhaust, transmission, wheels, and other items related to the moving the car.

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jon schapiro
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Engine Still Stalling!

Post by jon schapiro »

Well it looks like I am back to square one. I started the Lincoln up and it started almost immediately in 88° weather in the garage. I left it on fast idle for about 10 seconds and then kicked it off. It was idling very smoothly and after about four minutes it died. It re-started immediately but as I gave it gas it died again. I repeated this process about six times and a longest it stayed running was about four seconds. I am hoping it is not the fuel pump as from what I read on the forum it is a pain to change. Also I would think a mechanical fuel pump is either good or bad or would be leaking gas or oil. Everything appears to be dry and when the engine is running you could put a glass of water on top of the air cleaner and it would not vibrate. I have changed the coil, fuel filter, checked the points but not the condenser and rebuilt the carburetor less than 600 miles ago. The car has gone from super reliable to totally unreliable. I thought I found the problem in the air cleaner snorkel when the valve was closed but even with the valve wide-open it is still stalling. The fact that it starts right up and then stalls within two seconds has me totally confused because if it was fuel or air starving it wouldn’t do that and it is not an immediate stall like cutting the ignition switch. Any thoughts?
Last edited by jon schapiro on Wed Jul 07, 2021 1:38 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Engine Still Stalling!

Post by jon schapiro »

The only thing I can add is that when it is idling and I try to give it gas it does not want to take it sometimes. Other times it revs right up with no hesitation. I don’t think it’s a vapor lock but anything is possible I guess.

Update: I added some Marvel Mystery Oil to the gasoline to raise the boiling point. I’ll let it mix and re-try it tomorrow.
Last edited by jon schapiro on Wed Jul 07, 2021 4:19 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Engine Still Stalling!

Post by Mike »

I'm guessing (or still guessing) a carb or choke problem but re reading your old post did you change those lines yet? That post seem to indicate its a fuel delivery problem.
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Re: Engine Still Stalling!

Post by jon schapiro »

Mike - The choke works perfectly and I have been rebuilding carburetors for 55 years. When it is running it runs like a brand new car and the engine just sits there with no vibration whatsoever. This is why it’s so confusing and frustrating to me. I’m sure it’s something simple but I’m out of ideas
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Re: Engine Still Stalling!

Post by jon schapiro »

Mike - The choke works perfectly and I have been rebuilding carburetors for 55 years. When it is running it runs like a brand new car and the engine just sits there with no vibration whatsoever. This is why it’s so confusing and frustrating to me. I’m sure it’s something simple but I’m out of ideas.

Update: The car has been sitting for over an hour so I tried to start it up again. My thought process is if it was vapor lock it would start right up and run. Well it started right up and ran for two seconds and stalled like before so I don’t think it’s vapor lock. I have not change those lines because I cannot get the car up in the year to even look at them but I suspect the lines are hard as a rock and not collapsing.
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Re: Engine Still Stalling!

Post by TonyC »

Wow...well, since the problem persists, perhaps it's time to offer my suggestion.

When was the last time you addressed your PCV system? I don't mean only the valve, but the whole thing.

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Re: Engine Still Stalling!

Post by jon schapiro »

Tony - I just pulled the PCVvalve from the valve cover and it shakes and looks extremely clean as does the pipe attached to it. What should I be looking for?
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Re: Engine Still Stalling!

Post by action »

Guessing - and it should like a fuel problem
Fuel pressure marginal. Should test what pressure you have to know if that is really an issue
Float level is on the edge of being too low

The air cleaner door in an incorrect position will not create a stall. It will create pinging or rough run during cold ambients depending on position it was stuck in.

I think you need to look at basic things.
Is there enough fuel?
Is there spark?

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Re: Engine Still Stalling!

Post by jon schapiro »

Action - just to clarify a few items. The car ran beautifully three weeks ago and felt like a brand new car. The air cleaner snorkel door was never stuck but moves freely however the vacuum motor was keeping it closed even when the engine was warm which is why I pulled the vacuum hose off and plugged it. The fact it ran for four minutes tells me it’s getting fuel. When I changed the fuel filter it was clear so I’m not pulling any garbage up to the carburetor. I know the float levels are fine as I did set them myself and actually they didn’t require any adjustment from the last rebuild. It does feel like a fuel problem as opposed to an electrical problem since it sputters as opposed to die hard. Hope that helps. I don’t have a fuel pressure gauge but I can unhook the fuel line by the carburetor and see if it loads a glass jar when the engine is cold.
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Re: Engine Still Stalling!

Post by jon schapiro »

Now I am starting to think the car is possessed. I went back to the garage one more time to see if jiggling the ignition switch would cause it to stall and to pull the PVC valve out of the valve cover to see if it would suck my finger. This time the car started right up and jiggling the ignition switch had no effect. I pulled the PVC valve out of the valve cover and it indeed sucks my finger with a lot of pressure. I got back in the car and revved the engine many times and it takes the gas perfectly. I shut it off to write this note. Now I am totally confused but do not trust it to go on the road.
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Re: Engine Still Stalling!

Post by action »

Could be debris in the carb that has worked itself out. (Even water is debris)

I get that the rebuild was done recently. And all settings set.
I get that debris is not showing up in the filter.
I understand these things

And yet there is/was an issue. And one thing I can guarantee is the issue is not a phantom moving in and out of your engine. It is some physical thing. The fact that the issue is not experienced on the latest run cycle just says to me it is in the fuel side of things. (Not ignition) Because in general electrical issues do not correct themselves.

Fuel pressure and fuel volume tests would still not be out of line. Doing that test would eliminate any items up to the carb. I get that doing that kind of testing isn't comfortable. And the results may say, "All is OK". Knowing or diagnosing begins the process of reliability. Because splitting the fuel system into parts can narrow down what piece is causing the issue. However I suspect the carb at this point. But a leak in the vacuum side of the fuel system could close after fuel is running or temps come up.

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Re: Engine Still Stalling!

Post by TonyC »

Jon,

My guess, which is still only a guess but a plausible one considering the very similar symptoms, is that the PCV system may be choking off your engine. I'll elaborate, but first the backstory that led to this insight.

In 1998, my then-in-laws arranged a deal with neighbors to hook up me and my then-wife with a car, a 1985 Chevrolet Caprice (which I named "Screech"). In the summer of that year, I began to have those symptoms as well: Run the car a short distance with no issues, then out of the blue the engine would stall out and not restart for several minutes. After several weeks of running through every regular diagnosis and coming out no better than I was, one day I decided on a hunch to track down and replace every piece of that engine's PCV system: The valve, the filter in the air cleaner, even the hoses and grommet. It was totally guesswork...but it worked. From that day, I never had any more stalling issues. I still had trouble with belts, especially the alternator belt, but that's a different story and unrelated to these symptoms.

With the memory of that experience, that is why I'm guessing there could be something wonky in your engine's PCV system, despite it being a completely-different make of engine. I recommend replacing everything: The valve, and its securing grommet if it's brittle; the plumbing (replace the flexible hosing and spray clean any hard piping you may have); the filter in the air cleaner (I don't mean the big one, there is or should be a smaller filter inside, secured to the air cleaner's shell by a clip); and if there is a secondary outlet on the opposite valve cover, as Screech had, clean that out as well. I especially recommend this if it has been a while since the system was last checked. It is very hard to diagnose a PCV valve just by visual or audible means; so if it's been a while, just replace it as well as everything else I noted. Replacements are not expensive, not even when accumulated. Then, with new components in place, check the engine again; if it still stalls, then we all need to put our heads together again to find and expel that gremlin. But once we eliminate all the possible, however elusive, simple causes, that should narrow the search for that gremlin's hiding place.

---Tony
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Re: Engine Still Stalling!

Post by jon schapiro »

Tony - Thanks for your reply. I just checked all the plumbing associated with the PVC and I had changed that little filter inside the air cleaner about a year ago that actually connects to the oil cap filler hose on the other side of the air cleaner. Everything looks fine but I can always buy a new PVC valve. Since it ran so well after sitting for two hours I’m rethinking vapor lock. I know this ethanol laden gasoline can be a problem
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Re: Engine Still Stalling!

Post by JimA »

Add this to your tool chest.

https://www.amazon.com/Spectre-Performa ... 195&sr=8-6

If there isn't a rubber fuel line to split, you can plumb it in somewhere. That'll tell you if there's a fuel supply issue or a carb issue.
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Re: Engine Still Stalling!

Post by jon schapiro »

Thank you!
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