Thoughts?

[jon schapiro]

I went to my other garage this morning to start up the Lincoln and the carbureted 1981 Corvette. I set the chokes on both cars and the Corvette started up within three seconds having sat since last November. The Lincoln which normally starts up within three seconds just cranked and cranked and cranked just like last year and I had to add starter fluid to get it started last year. This year I forgot to bring my starter fluid so I will have to go back tomorrow and try again. Since both cars are carbureted and have been sitting since last November I am a little concerned about the Lincoln I don’t think it’s the gasoline. However once it started up last year it ran fine the whole season. When I took the air cleaner cover off the choke was fully closed but I did not smell any gasoline despite a lot of cranking. Same thing last year.

I am hoping the fuel pump is good as the car ran beautifully from March through November last year but as I said in previous years it would start up within three seconds of sitting for four months.

I realize the Lincoln has a longer line from the gas tank than the Corvette.

Thoughts?

[action]

Sounds like the fuel pump is weak. And after it gets fuel, the rubber in the pump expands some as is good until it drys out.

After 10 seconds of cranking even an empty carb bowl should be filled up.
Do that and then stop the engine. Remove air cleaner and look down the carb with the choke opened. Operate the throttle, is there a squirt of fuel seen?
If no fuel is not getting into the carb bowl

All possible causes
Fuel filter in tank plugged or restricted
Leaking rubber fuel line - at tank or at fuel filter
Weak or non-functioning fuel pump
Plugged or restricted fuel filter
Carb needle/seat stuck or float stuck

Action

[jon schapiro]

Action - My thoughts too. I’ll try the starter fluid Tuesday and see what I find. Filter is new and I rebuilt carburetor 3 years ago (200 miles) ago.

[jon schapiro]

Action - Well I just got back from the garage and despite the repeated attempts to start it yesterday the battery was fully charged on the trickle charger which I thought was great! I held the choke plate open and squirted the starter fluid for about 3 to 4 seconds. I put the air cleaner back on and the car started immediately and I let it run for a good eight minutes and it takes the gas beautifully. It was awkward to see if the accelerator pump was squirting when the engine was shut down off as it is tight and dark in the garage. I let it sit for five minutes and then tried to restart it and it started immediately. Next week I will take it out for a run and see how it does.

By the way I checked the Shop Manual and it says it came with a Carter fuel pump. I checked Rock Auto and they have a new Carter fuel pump for the car for $17.79! I don’t think I need a fuel pump but I could not believe how cheap it was.

Thanks again for your response and help

Jon

[action]

The reason that pump is cheap is it fits a lot of engines!!!!
It is a very common pump.

Likely what has happened is by virtue of getting the engine started (via fuel down the carb) the pump was able to draw furl from the tank in sufficient amounts to get the rubber pieces lubricated. Most likely the fuel system and engine will operate over the next driving season.
However I would suspect some rubber piece is not 100%. That means not only the pump but the rubber fuel hoses. Typically if there is a hose at the carb, it gets changed frequently. And the one at the pump is usually changed with the pump. The one at the tank is out of sight.
Out of sight out of mind!

And know the hose at the tank and at the pump are both on the vacuum side of the pump. Not only is there no pressure it is negative pressure on those hoses. Some slight leak with only be visible with engine off. And even then will be difficult on a dirt covered hose if the leaking fuel has evaporated. The other engine concern on a leak in those hoses is air. It may be possible the fuel pump will suck a very slight amount of air through that hose. Under nearly all conditions no one is going to know. The exception is high heat operation. Any air into the fuel under high load and high heat causes fuel to boil. (Vapor lock) These cars are so old and many of them are running around with old rubber fuel hose.

However the fuel pump is the most likely cause. It is the second fuel system piece with rubber that is moved as a function of operation. (The other is the accelerator pump in the carb) The constant flexing of the rubber diaphragm in the pump will wear it out. Usually it is not a total failure. It starts as a very small leak. One other check for a bad pump diaphragm is fuel in the crankcase. (Not common with that pump design) Sniffing the dip stick you might be able to smell fuel in the oil. If that happens oil dilution is not a good thing. And I am sure you knew that.

Action

[Mike]

I went thru this last year with one of my vehicles. It was hard starting and the last time I managed to get it running it stalled during warm up and never wanted to start again. It wasn't getting fuel to the carb but couldn't determine if it was a line, the pick up in the tank or the pump and pump is awkward to change. I ended up buying an electric pump to temporarily bypass the the normal one and it fired right up. So guess what's first thing on my list this year to change?

[action]

. It wasn't getting fuel to the carb but couldn't determine if it was a line, the pick up in the tank or the pump and pump is awkward to change.

The fuel pump IS awkward to replace!!

https://www.thelincolnforum.net/phpbb3/ ... =1&t=53197

Action

[jon schapiro]

UPDATE: I picked the car up yesterday after it’s been sitting for two weeks and it started up immediately so I believe there is no fuel pump problem. I’m going to check the hoses and belts this morning and take it for a nice ride. It was very smooth driving at the 4 miles from the garage back to the house.

[jtheye]

I have often stated that I don't work on my own cars. This doesn't mean I know nothing about cars. I just don't have the temperament to deal with badly engineered "things". What I have found often with some of the other cars I have is that most of the time from a car sitting, it won't start because of the points in the distributer having bad contact. When I go to start the car and it does not start right up, I have my wife crank the car over while I dump a very small amount of gas into the carburetor. If it doesn't at least try to start, I then know it is a "fire" problem and not a fuel problem. What is most funny about using starting fluid is that the car may start "running" and you will not know if it is because fuel has emptied in the lines or if the points are stuck together. You see, starting fluid can make a gas engine run off of compression instead of "fire". Another thing about starting fluid is that while the engine starts to "run" while spraying, the points can become "unstuck" or the fuel pump can get the gas back to the carb. Try using a little gas in the carb instead of starting fluid. What the engine does will tell you more about what is going on.

[tomo]

I would never pour gas down the carburetor when the engine is cranking and the ignition is on. A backfire can cause considerable damage to the car and the person pouring the gas.

I believe that the corn gas that is in the carb bowl goes bad over the winter. My Lincoln will not start in the Spring without giving it fresh gas or starting fluid. I know that there is fuel in the carb, because I get a good stream when I operate the accelerator linkage. My Mercury seems more tolerant of the fuel, because it starts right up.

[action]

I would never pour gas down the carburetor when the engine is cranking and the ignition is on. A backfire can cause considerable damage to the car and the person pouring the gas.

Really depends on the quantity. Much more than a fluid ounce and the risk of a flame is much higher.
The engine is designed to ingest atomized fuel. Like the liquid that comes out a spray paint can. Pouring liquid gasoline is not atomized. Liquid fuel will produce vapor (and lots of it) right away. But pouring lots of liquid gasoline into a carb has issues on a number of different levels.

Action

[JimA]

I believe that the corn gas that is in the carb bowl goes bad over the winter. My Lincoln will not start in the Spring without giving it fresh gas or starting fluid. I know that there is fuel in the carb, because I get a good stream when I operate the accelerator linkage. My Mercury seems more tolerant of the fuel, because it starts right up.

That could explain why my Lincoln, with an in-tank electric fuel pump, is hard starting after sitting for a while. I always let the pump run till it's had a chance to fill the carb before cranking, but it still cranks for a long time. Maybe the engine doesn't start till the accelerator pump expels some old gas and lets some better gas from the tank in. I'll try pumping the accelerator more.