Dan Szwarc wrote:Make sure your machine shop can handle angled bores if you dive into a rebuild. The 15° slant of the deck to the bore angle is not typical of most engine blocks (so I’ve heard). This may be a non-issue.
I'm afraid it is an issue. Today I gutted the engine, and the staff at the auto shop just wasn't prepared for what they saw. I guess it's one of those things they wouldn't believe unless they saw it themselves. The 15° slant is beyond their ability to handle; their equipment can only handle perpendicular bores. They suggested calling Bonawitz, the machinist that did my cylinder heads in January, see if they can handle it; so I have to do that Monday. If they can't handle a slanted-bore block, I have problems.
---Tony
"Don't believe everything you read on the Internet, just because there is a picture with a quote next to it." (Abraham Lincoln, 1866) "Question Authority!"
1966 Continental Sedan, affectionately known as "Frankenstein" until body restoration is done (to be renamed "General Sherman" on that event)
Know one who can make a house-call to Kansas?? Good luck with that.
---Tony
"Don't believe everything you read on the Internet, just because there is a picture with a quote next to it." (Abraham Lincoln, 1866) "Question Authority!"
1966 Continental Sedan, affectionately known as "Frankenstein" until body restoration is done (to be renamed "General Sherman" on that event)
I'm sorry to hear you need a re-bore, but not surprised. A machine shop may require the pistons to be on hand, so they can measure the exact diameter, before they bore the block, so ordering them soon may reduce delay. Most shops go straight to +030, rather than try a smaller bore and have to go larger.
Any shop can probably do the work, if they have a 15 degree torque plate, but making one of those will be expensive! Maybe one of the usuals will rent one?
I am told the Chevrolet 409 also used the "slash block" deck design, but it was certainly an uncommon thing.
I referenced the shop manual, and it said the cylinders are angled at 10º to the block's deck. In any case, I'd have to rely on a machine shop that has experience with that. I didn't get ahold of Bonawitz today, so I have to try again tomorrow. Plan A is to have the cylinders bored out, naturally, then get pistons and rings of the new size they have to be to fit the cylinders. I don't expect to have any issues with getting oversized crank bearings, the stock specs should be fine; but I'm still holding off on them as well, see if I can get everything in one big order. Of course, Plan A is wholly reliant on whether Bonawitz can do a boring out to that kind of block.
If they can't handle that job, then I have to resort to Plan B...which I know will trigger a lot of protest from the staff at the auto shop, but I don't think they would really be in a position to prohibit it. It is, after all, my car, my engine, and therefore my decision; and if Plan A is impossible to do in this area, then I have to resort to Plan B. There is a Plan C (replacing the whole engine outright), but that would take up far too much time and money, neither of which I have in abundance, so forget Plan C. It's either Plan A or Plan B.
Either plan, of course, will require new pistons. Below is an example of why; not all of the pistons were this bad off, but this was not the only one that looked like this. This sort of thing cannot have happened overnight; it had to be the consequence of years of use and abuse...most of which is attributed to me, admittedly. To think that the engine still ran, however relatively poorly, with pistons like this! But that does have to explain all the gas buildup and the belching of oil through every orifice. Amazingly, the cylinders do not show very much in the form of chain-reaction.
---Tony
Attachments
#5 Piston Removed
"Don't believe everything you read on the Internet, just because there is a picture with a quote next to it." (Abraham Lincoln, 1866) "Question Authority!"
1966 Continental Sedan, affectionately known as "Frankenstein" until body restoration is done (to be renamed "General Sherman" on that event)
Tony, are you going for a different set of heads when you put it all back together?
Upgrade to a Pertronix ignition, too. You won't regret it.
Nick
Current: 1971 Mark III, 2012 MKZ AWD, 2016 F-150 Platinum
WANTED: 1969 Continental sedan, 77 Continental Town Car w/opera window delete, 76 Fleetwood Brougham
It's okay, Dan; what's a few degrees between friends? With confirmation I know what to tell the machine shop when I can finally talk to someone over there.
No, Nick, I've already done the head change and am sticking with the refurbished ones. There was so sign of damage to either of them when I took them off, so it's safe to re-use them. However, I still have the original heads, which I'm holding onto for eventual refurbishing. The Pertronix conversion is on my mind, though, and I will eventually do that. Right now, I have to pinch my pennies for the block treatment (that is, if the machine shop can do it), new pistons, new rings if I have to go oversize, and new crank bearings. Plan A is going to be very expensive, but it will pay for itself in the long run, I know. If Plan A is a bust, then Plan B will be a tad cheaper, as I won't have the expense of new rings and block reboring factored in; it won't be as much of a long-term reassurance, but it should last long enough for me to acquire a second car and secure a move to an area with better machining options. But I still expect at least $800 sunk into new pistons and bearings.
---Tony
"Don't believe everything you read on the Internet, just because there is a picture with a quote next to it." (Abraham Lincoln, 1866) "Question Authority!"
1966 Continental Sedan, affectionately known as "Frankenstein" until body restoration is done (to be renamed "General Sherman" on that event)
Even with the added expense, still cheaper than a new car, I say. As long as it isn't putting you in the poor house, carry on. A car payment is guaranteed every month - maintenance on a paid-for isn't.
Nick
Current: 1971 Mark III, 2012 MKZ AWD, 2016 F-150 Platinum
WANTED: 1969 Continental sedan, 77 Continental Town Car w/opera window delete, 76 Fleetwood Brougham
I'm still not sure which plan of action will be the one I choose; that depends on what the machine shop I contacted has to say when they see the block (they can't be sure if they can do a bore job without seeing what they're up against, which I hope to arrange soon). But with either plan of action I will need new pistons for sure. I've seen several outlets with piston options; however, I am concerned about them. I'd like to be sure that the new pistons have the same shape in their crowns as the old ones; I've seen flat-crowned pistons listed before and just do not have a warm-'n-fuzzy with that. I don't know if Kanter's or Egge's offerings, for instance, have crowns to duplicate the originals, although I'd like to think so...but before I commit to anything I'd like to know what to expect. That right now is my biggest apprehension.
---Tony
"Don't believe everything you read on the Internet, just because there is a picture with a quote next to it." (Abraham Lincoln, 1866) "Question Authority!"
1966 Continental Sedan, affectionately known as "Frankenstein" until body restoration is done (to be renamed "General Sherman" on that event)
From what I have seen photos of in the past, seems that Egge had the correct replacement pistons. Whether they are still available would be the next question.
Nick
Current: 1971 Mark III, 2012 MKZ AWD, 2016 F-150 Platinum
WANTED: 1969 Continental sedan, 77 Continental Town Car w/opera window delete, 76 Fleetwood Brougham
Be sure that you measure any new pistons from the center of the piston pin to the top of the crown for consistency and clearance to the head. I have no faith in the current quality control procedures of aftermarket parts suppliers and after all of the problems that you have had you don't need any more.
LithiumCobalt wrote:From what I have seen photos of in the past, seems that Egge had the correct replacement pistons. Whether they are still available would be the next question.
You're right about that, Tom; I had thought about that.
It looks like Egge's pistons are okay, except for the two valve-float bumps missing. But maybe I can survive without them, as long as the crowns are otherwise correct, which they appear to be.
I'll update when I know something about the plan of choice, which I hope to know today.
---Tony
"Don't believe everything you read on the Internet, just because there is a picture with a quote next to it." (Abraham Lincoln, 1866) "Question Authority!"
1966 Continental Sedan, affectionately known as "Frankenstein" until body restoration is done (to be renamed "General Sherman" on that event)
Didn't you already buy pistons?
What are you going to do with them?
Action
Phoenix - Yeah, it's hot, however it's a dry heat
2006 Lincoln Navigator Limited 5.4l 3V
1996 Lincoln Mark VIII 2DR Coupe Diamond Anniversary 4.6l DOHC, 4R70W, 3.07
1970 Continental Mark III Triple Black 460 4v, C6, 2.80 (Used for Woodward Dream Cruise or just generally stored in Michigan)
1966 Lincoln Continental 4DR Convertible 462 4v, C6, 3.00
1966 Mercury Park Lane 4DR Breezeway 410 4v, C6, 2.80
Today I gutted the engine, and the staff at the auto shop just wasn't prepared for what they saw. I guess it's one of those things they wouldn't believe unless they saw it themselves. The 15° slant is beyond their ability to handle; their equipment can only handle perpendicular bores. They suggested calling Bonawitz, the machinist that did my cylinder heads in January, see if they can handle it; so I have to do that Monday. If they can't handle a slanted-bore block, I have problems. 
With confirmation I know what to tell the machine shop when I can finally talk to someone over there.
