Transmission replacement

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Re: Transmission replacement

Post by action »

Engagement into reverse and low (not drive) I believe activate both a clutch and a band. The band in never an issue as far as harsh engagement. The clutch can be. Fluid type & clutch material can impact the engagement. However in most cases harsh engagement is due to idle speed too high. Loose motor or transmission mounts can be a factor too.

I just looked back to see what year. (I was thinking a C6) And you have a '63. I will need to do a little more checking.

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Re: Transmission replacement

Post by action »

I am not finding much on the web for that transmission. There is a diagnostic chart in the shop manual

For the Cruise O Matic transmission (which is similar) I have found some things -
Fluid type (Type F) is important. Using Dexron will change how the clutches engage
Fluid level is a factor. Not over or under filled
The band adjustments for one guy with a '65 full Sized Ford had harsh reverse engagement. He adjusted the bands based on a different year vehicle. The bands need to be adjusted based on spec for the model year. Different years will/may have different settings. Having the factory shop manual and not an aftermarket or generic data can be an issue.

Good luck

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Phoenix - Yeah, it's hot, however it's a dry heat
2006 Lincoln Navigator Limited 5.4l 3V
1996 Lincoln Mark VIII 2DR Coupe Diamond Anniversary 4.6l DOHC, 4R70W, 3.07
1970 Continental Mark III Triple Black 460 4v, C6, 2.80 (Used for Woodward Dream Cruise or just generally stored in Michigan)
1966 Lincoln Continental 4DR Convertible 462 4v, C6, 3.00
1966 Mercury Park Lane 4DR Breezeway 410 4v, C6, 2.80
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TonyC
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Re: Transmission replacement

Post by TonyC »

Yeah, there will be very little on that kind of transmission outside of the shop manual. That in itself poses a problem, because the number of shops that are familiar with that exclusive design amount to maybe 1% of all shops in the country. It's an exclusive beast, not shared with any other Fords. To further complicate matters, he cannot simply swap in a more-modern design; the 430 of that year will not accommodate any other model, which means he'd have to change the engine (an ordeal in itself)...and since the slip yoke is also exclusive, that would mean changing the drive shaft, possibly the rear axle as well. His best bet would be to find one of those shops in the 1% group, or at least one that is willing to venture into uncharted (for them) territory with his shop manual as their guide. For parts he'd have to rely on the Usual Suspects. Is it possible to service that transmission? Yes. Is it easy or cheap? No. On the other hand, no transmission service comes cheap.

Basically, that transmission is an evolution of the first-gen automatics Lincoln adopted starting in '55; according to one source I read, it's similar to the one used in 1960, but the innards were repositioned for a smaller casing.

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Re: Transmission replacement

Post by action »

TonyC wrote:Yeah, there will be very little on that kind of transmission outside of the shop manual. That in itself poses a problem, because the number of shops that are familiar with that exclusive design amount to maybe 1% of all shops in the country. It's an exclusive beast, not shared with any other Fords.

Basically, that transmission is an evolution of the first-gen automatics Lincoln adopted starting in '55; according to one source I read, it's similar to the one used in 1960, but the innards were repositioned for a smaller casing.

---Tony
While pieces of the automatic transmission used in the pre-66 slab side Lincolns are unique to Lincoln. The transmission and it's design that was released in model year 1958 and is the large case transmission known as a MX transmission and are the same for FE and MEL engines until 1966. Marketed under the names of Merc O Matic, Cruise O Matic for Mercury and Ford. (The smaller transmission was known as a Ford O Matic in some years)

The operational design of the transmission is the same for all FLM car lines. (Even though total package size or linkages may be different for a given model year) The bellhousing pattern is the same for FE and MEL blocks from 1958 to 1960. For model year 1961 MEL engines had a different pattern that carried through to model year 1968 which includes the C-6 transmission for the last 3 years of slab side production. Making the C6 of the 1966 to 1968 unique in bell housing pattern over later C6 transmissions.

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Last edited by action on Fri Apr 16, 2021 3:24 am, edited 2 times in total.
Phoenix - Yeah, it's hot, however it's a dry heat
2006 Lincoln Navigator Limited 5.4l 3V
1996 Lincoln Mark VIII 2DR Coupe Diamond Anniversary 4.6l DOHC, 4R70W, 3.07
1970 Continental Mark III Triple Black 460 4v, C6, 2.80 (Used for Woodward Dream Cruise or just generally stored in Michigan)
1966 Lincoln Continental 4DR Convertible 462 4v, C6, 3.00
1966 Mercury Park Lane 4DR Breezeway 410 4v, C6, 2.80
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MFE
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Re: Transmission replacement

Post by MFE »

Sounds a lot like the "transmission shop" has double A's and MCO in the name, in which case they are not a transmission shop, they're really more of an installer of reman'd transmissions. Which are purely coincidentally the solution for almost any transmission issue you bring to them.
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Re: Transmission replacement

Post by action »

^^^ I would agree.

I found a pre-66 Lincoln shop manual. (1965)
I had forgotten the marketing name was Turbo-Drive
The schematic shows two pumps. A front and rear. Which means the car has the unique ability of being push started should the starter go out with this transmission. And is exactly the same design as full sized Ford & Mercury of the early 1960s. Any tech that knows the cast iron Cruise O Matic transmission of a Ford Galaxie will be at home when working on this one. It is a 3 piece case with the center section made of cast iron. The front bell housing and rear tail housing are made of aluminum. Diagnosis is the same

Per the shop manual - 7-1 General Transmission service
*Engine idle speed check
An idle speed too high will cause the car to creep and have harsh engagement and harsh closed throttle down shifts
Moving on
*Initial Engagement checks
After running engine until normal engine temp is reached and the engine at correct idle speed Shift lever to D1, D2, L or R.
Rough initial engagements are caused by high engine idle speed, bands out of adjustment, high control pressure and faulty operation of vacuum unit, pressure regulator or main control valve.

Control pressure at idle with 16 or more inches of vacuum should be 57 to 77 PSI with transmission in D1 or D2. Should be 57 to 213 with transmission in P, R, N

If engine curb idle speed is correct at 450 - 575 the control pressure should be measured. That line pressure tap is on the left side of the transmission case, just below the front band adjustment. If the control pressure needs adjusting this can be done with an adjustable vacuum modulator. Pretty easy to do as well.

BUT FIRST
Fluid level, engine idle speed and engine vacuum need to be checked and adjusted as it applies.

Then there is one more thing to look at and that is the kick down rod. (or down shift rod) This must NOT be engaged. It is only engaged at WOT or close to WOT operation. If that linkage is flopping around because it was not connected or connected incorrectly the control pressures are increased because the transmission thinks the driver has got the accelerator mashed to the floor.

Action
Phoenix - Yeah, it's hot, however it's a dry heat
2006 Lincoln Navigator Limited 5.4l 3V
1996 Lincoln Mark VIII 2DR Coupe Diamond Anniversary 4.6l DOHC, 4R70W, 3.07
1970 Continental Mark III Triple Black 460 4v, C6, 2.80 (Used for Woodward Dream Cruise or just generally stored in Michigan)
1966 Lincoln Continental 4DR Convertible 462 4v, C6, 3.00
1966 Mercury Park Lane 4DR Breezeway 410 4v, C6, 2.80
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Re: Transmission replacement

Post by Suicidekid63 »

here's one on ebay- rebuilt https://www.ebay.com/itm/1963-Lincoln-T ... SwhlZYtiSs

may be able to contact this shop for info, as well. ???
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Re: Transmission replacement

Post by TonyC »

Bumping just to share something I just read, on this site: https://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2022/ ... s-part-iv/ This web site had been doing history segments on Ford transmissions, so I had been reading them to see if I could learn more about the origins of the MX/PCA transmissions that have been the bane of many a transmission shop and even some owners of those years of cars. One paragraph in the link above stated that C4s, upon their debut in 1964, were immediately put in use in Lincolns and kept in use until 1981. I had to read that twice to make sure I didn't read it wrong. We vets of Lincolns know that to be absolutely not the case. The MX/PCA was used solely and exclusively on Lincolns thru '65, then replaced with the C6 in 1966 (which, in an odd contradiction of itself, that same article makes note of!). I don't know how the writers could have made such a gross error, unless they stayed focused only on lower-class Fords and really don't know nor care to know about Lincoln's engineering practices, some of which influenced beyond Ford's footprints. We know the C4 variant was never used on any Lincoln before the '80s, with the possible exception of the Versailles starting in '77 (I don't know for sure, which is why I said "possible").

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"Don't believe everything you read on the Internet, just because there is a picture with a quote next to it." (Abraham Lincoln, 1866)
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Re: Transmission replacement

Post by Dan Szwarc »

That article was impossible to follow.
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Re: Transmission replacement

Post by TonyC »

I know, right? I'm beginning to wonder, if they botched those details, how many other details did they botch in prior installments? And, whoever typed that up, they need to go back to 6th-grade grammar school, because their composition skills are, shall we say, "urinary-tract deficient."

---Tony
"Don't believe everything you read on the Internet, just because there is a picture with a quote next to it." (Abraham Lincoln, 1866)
"Question Authority!"

1966 Continental Sedan, affectionately known as "Frankenstein" until body restoration is done (to be renamed "General Sherman" on that event)
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