Where to get anti stall dashpot for AFB carb.

[George W]

The seal portion of the anti stall dashpot on my 1965 Lincoln AFB has totally disintegrated and the carb is leaking fuel from around the shaft post where it exits the carb upper body. I don't see a source for these anywhere. From reading earlier posts it seems that Bakers, now Old Car Clearance, used to sell a carb kit that included the dashpot but I don't see it offered on their website. Can the dashpot simply be eliminated and the opening in the top of the carb for the shaft sealed up ?
The usual Hygrade Jiffy Kit for this carb # 443A does not include the dashpot and I see no way to replace the seal on the old one.

[action]

From an online search not my experience

https://www.carburetor-parts.com/Carter ... ine_p_1473

>>>>>Action

[Suicidekid63]

I just had my carb rebuilt and used the kit from Bakers. It has dashpot and accel pump piston. $90 though.

[TonyC]

It looks like Action's search may have done all of us MEL/Carter owners a huge service! It appears that this kit may be an exact replacement for the kit Baker's Auto offered before its "restructuring." I just might go for one of these myself, being that I have a second Carter carburetor that is in dire need of a full rebuild.

George, I would recommend this to you as well. You cannot just seal up the dashpot and roll; it's there and called an "anti-stall dashpot" for a reason. If you discarded it, you'd be bound to stall out every time you come to a stop, which will be embarrassing for you and frustrating for others around you. And since this kit claims to be corn-syrup-resistant, that means you should be able to run either kind of gas, the octane rating being your only concern.

---Tony

[George W]

Thanks all for the advice. I ordered the kit from Mikes Carb. Parts. Hopefully it will be here in a couple of days so I can get the car back together. The timing chain and gears are now changed, new plugs, coil, wires, belts and hoses installed. BTW, the OEM timing gear and chain appeared to be in perfect condition. No missing or broken nylon so no need to have to drop the pan to clean out anything. The car has only 25K miles on it so I think the rest of the engine should be OK.
I'll post back to inform all of you that have been so generous with your advice to this 72 year old newbie.

[TonyC]

Our pleasure. I plan on ordering one myself tomorrow, as soon as I remember which box I put the second carburetor in, just to compare the numbers on its tag to Mike's list of applications, although I'm 98% certain that this is what I've been needing for almost two years now. UPDATE to last sentence: I found the carburetor and confirmed that the kit is correct, so I put in an order for that kit myself.

You really lucked out, doing the timing-component swap before the OE sprocket went with you; those sprockets are not supposed to last any longer than 30 years before deteriorating. Use or lack of it may have contributed, but it's age that does nylon in. Did you happen to notice any hair-thin fractures in the sprocket ring? When I changed out Frankenstein's components, I too had no broken teeth or other noticeable problems...until I looked more closely at the cam sprocket and noticed several very small fractures in the nylon ring, between the teeth. That means that, like you, I dodged a bullet...well, one, anyway. The other wasn't quite so successful a dodge, but that's another story. It was working on that damage that prompted me to replace the timing components for good measure.

---Tony

[George W]

I got the kit from Mike's Carb today. They don't include a new or remanufactured dashpot. All they give you is the actual cup and some lame instructions. The cup looks for all the world to be the same as the cup used on the accelerator pump. It could be a slightly different diameter. I haven't measured them yet but I will.
The instructions tell you to drill the bottom flange of the brass stem off so you can remove the rather thick, washer like, retaining disc and what's left of the cup. They then give you 3 options. One: Get a thin flat washer to replace the original retaining disc and reassemble. Swage or stake the washer in place on the end of the brass tube. The tube appears to be very thin walled and fragile so I don't like this area. Two: As before, but thread the end of the brass tube and use a nut to retain the washer and cup in place. I'm a little wary about this as well. Three: As before, but use a small snap ring.

They don't supply the washer, a nut or a snap ring nor do they give you spec. for the flat washer, what to size of tap to use and what size or type of nut or snap ring. This means I'll be experimenting tomorrow. I was thinking of using a PAL pushnut type of fastener if I can find one that will fit the diameter of the hollow end of the brass tube AND leave the center of the tube unobstructed. I have good mechanical abilities but this job looks like it requires a watchmaker !

The bottom end of the brass tube is open with a check ball secured further up in the tube. It's necessary that the end of the tube remain open for the dashpot to function so that leaves out putting a screw in there.

I don't know what was included in the Baker's kit but if it was the same or similar then I welcome input from anyone that's had experience with this. I'll post what I find tomorrow.

[TonyC]

Damm...that's a disappointment. Luckily for me, I have pieces salvaged from my last rebuild, and I have mad-scientist skills to do such a job; hopefully I can have some degree of success despite that setback. I also noticed in the picture (assuming that their picture is accurate, I don't know since I haven't received my kit yet) that it may not contain new jets. If that's the case, I can only hope that the old jets in the carburetor can be re-used after soaking them in solvent.

The Baker kit had absolutely everything in it: Fully-assembled dashpot piston, jets, the works. And with the shop manual on hand, it was like assembling a skill-level-5 model—in other words, intricate but quite doable.

---Tony

[George W]

Tony, The kit from Mike's Carb. was nowhere near that complete. Hopefully Old Car Clearance will begin offering the same kit that was offered from Bakers before. A new dashpot really is what's needed. I was able to make the Mike's kit work on the original dashpot by drilling off the retaining lip off the brass shaft at the end of the aluminum washer, discarding that washer and what was left of the leather cup and just using a round PALNUT push on fastener to secure the new cup.

There is only a very little stub of brass left on the shaft once you drill off the retaining lip. The instructions from Mikes says an option to retain the new cup is to use a thin flat washer ( not supplied ) and thread the stub of the brass shaft for a retaining nut ( also not supplied ). There is no way that will work. There is simply not enough length of the shaft remaining to do that. I was lucky that the PALNUT was thin and flat enough to grip on what was left. As it was there was not even enough length on the stub to put in a flat washer under the cup to support the underside. Luckily the outer diameter of the PALNUT is 7/16" which appears that it will be enough to do the job.

The PALNUT I used was p/n: PS 188007. Specs are: .188 stud, 7/16 OD, .015 thick, Flat round. I got this from a PALNUT Design Engineers Sample Kit that I've had for years. If they make one that's 1/2" OD that would be perfect. As it is I think this will do the job. I'm putting the carb back together now. I have extras of these if anyone runs into the same problem and needs one.

[sv66]

Restarting this thread.
My 66 didn't run all that well last Summer. I had Mike from Then and Now rebuild the 3 port pump in the Spring (before he retired) and it ran much better. I also changed the fuel filter. However, it still hesitated occasionally upon acceleration from a dead stop and didn't seem to have the get up and go I was accustomed to. The fuel pump had never been rebuilt before and I suspect the carb hasn't either. I have a mechanic that I use on my car for those items I don't feel 100% comfortable doing and he has rebuilt many carbs over his 45+ years. I want to be sure I get him the right rebuild kit. The stamping on the carb is 4147S and the Ford tag is C6VFAA5LD. I found this kit on Mike's Carburetor Parts. It looks to be pretty complete and a fairly new kit as the one listed in a previous post is no longer available. Any thoughts on it?

https://www.carburetor-parts.com/afb-k4101.html

Thanks

[George W]

Looks the same as the kit I received, The little purple disc is the part needed for the dash pot. Unfortunately the kit does not include a thin flat washer nor a retainer nut or retainer clip-fastener to secure the dashpot cup and washer to the dashpot shaft. Fortunately I have an old Palnut sample kit that had a suitable flat pushnut clip that was thin enough to grab what was left of the end of the brass dashpot shaft so I was lucky and able to attach the new purple diaphragm and flat washer. It would be a HUGE help if these two tiny parts could be included in the kit. As an alternative, a whole new dashpot to be included either as standard or as a kit option, would be ideal. I’ve worked on other AFB carbs and have never ran into another one that had an internal anti-stall dashpot like the Lincoln carb has. I’ve also never seen this dashpot shaft/diaphragm assembly offered for sale anywhere.

[TonyC]

Yes, and many people would not understand its purpose, because carburetors have not been the mainstream in well over a generation. I have to agree; Mike's Carbs really ought to include those pieces their instructions recommend getting on your own, if they don't wish to make a complete reproduction piston (which would be better). If it did, I just may have been inclined to try such a repair myself. And it doesn't help matters at all that, the last time I asked OCC (the former Baker's Auto) about the rebuild kit, they told me they don't offer it anymore since severing ties with the original producer and could not give any estimate of when (or even whether) they would find another producer.

I think I got lucky with my rebuild last year. The replacement carburetor I bought, after I trashed the original trying to remove a stuck jet, still had an intact dashpot piston, so I did not have to concern myself with that. All I had to do was take the thing apart, soak the components, use the gaskets in the kit upon reassembly, and that was it. Well, actually, that wasn't it; the replacement had somehow broken off a chunk of wall between the front and rear right barrels. But, with a little mad-scientist skill, I was able to fill that with JB Weld, shape it into the shape of the missing chunk when it got tacky enough, and sand it flush once it dried. Nobody would know the difference now, without disassembling the carburetor.

---Tony

[frasern]

Some Mopar engines also used that dashpot, early 60s 413 W/2 4V for one. Most carters used an outside dashpot, and from what I can see, converting is possible. The well has no open passages which would be a problem if the internal unit were left out. clearance around the linkage may be an issue. This is only an untested theory, so if another carb guy has more to add, I'm all ears.