Fuel Pump Pushrod

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Fuel Pump Pushrod

Postby Ken Stevens » Wed May 15, 2013 7:01 pm

When I had my pump rebuilt by Mike Casella, i also installed a new pushrod. The replacement rod was all steel: no bronzite tip. I see both are available so I was just wondering.

I ask this because vapor lock-like symptoms are becoming much more prevalent. So much so that I have been forced to run the electric priming pump constantly. Today was an 81 degree day and the engine quit a few blocks after a hot restart. Poured some cool water on the pump and waited a bit and she started right up and got me home. And this all occurred with the electric pump on!

Might this be a result of a short or worn push rod? Or possibly an incorrect one?
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Re: Fuel Pump Pushrod

Postby Ken Stevens » Thu May 16, 2013 9:29 pm

Any pushrod input? Anyone?
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Re: Fuel Pump Pushrod

Postby LithiumCobalt » Thu May 16, 2013 9:50 pm

Ken, what condition are all of your rubber fuel lines in?

Could the carb be leaned out too much?
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Re: Fuel Pump Pushrod

Postby Ken Stevens » Thu May 16, 2013 10:42 pm

New rubber lines, new foam underhood foam line insulation, rebuilt carter 2bbl, rebuilt 3- port fuel pump and new (all steel) pushrod. I had the carb adjusted at the garage that works on the Lincoln, so I cannot vouch for the lean/rich settings. It runs great and shows no hesitation or stumble when running, so I don't know what symptoms to look for to deduce a lean setting.
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Re: Fuel Pump Pushrod

Postby TMaria » Fri May 17, 2013 5:57 am

You said you installed a new pus rod without a bronze tip. Did you install a new concentric? This is under the timing cover and the push rod rides on it. Bakers sells the kit FPPK61 "KIT, Fuel Pump Pushrod Conversion 61 62 63*, Avoid apor lock by upgrading your 1961-63 fuel pump pushrod" 125.00 I don't think you can just replace the pusrod.

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Re: Fuel Pump Pushrod

Postby Ken Stevens » Fri May 17, 2013 9:09 am

I didn't replace the concentric. Just dropped in the new pushrod. Everything was fine for a while, but pumping slowly became less effective requiring the increasing use of the electric pump. So something is wearing or degrading here. Either the rod is wearing down, or by using an all steel rod the concentric on the cam is somehow messed up.

The original question was about the rod and whether going to a bronze tip will make a difference. Perhaps pulling the rod and measuring it should be the next step.

Damn.
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Re: Fuel Pump Pushrod

Postby Dan Szwarc » Fri May 17, 2013 10:14 am

The ECcentric may wear, but I highly doubt it. It's easier to pull the free plug and pull the rod and re-measure it than pull the timing cover to inspect the eccentric. Plus, who knows if the rods are properly hardened. The replacements may wear out quicly even when made from steel. Even Tony had a problem with a steel rod (it was too short).
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Re: Fuel Pump Pushrod

Postby Ken Stevens » Fri May 17, 2013 12:07 pm

Pulling the rod and measuring looks like the next step. Hopefully the rod will be short and a new one will solve the issue for now.

What is the correct pushrod length and should I replace it with a bronze-tipped or another all-steel version?
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Re: Fuel Pump Pushrod

Postby Dan Szwarc » Fri May 17, 2013 12:52 pm

Per the MPC, page 983 (of the PDF), the fuel pump push rod is:
Part number: C1VE-9400-A
Length: 4-7/8 = 4.875" (copper tipped with two grooves)
Used on vehicles bult prior to 1-25-1963
Must use eccentric C2OZ-6287-A

I think Ford changed the eccentric when they went to the all-steel push rod. Perhaps they hardened it since the copper end (not bronze, according to the MPC) is what rides against the eccentric?

Per this post:
Rick Crunelle wrote:
76MarkIV wrote:Source: For edification, a new fuel pump push rod with bronze tip should measure 4.871 to 4.881 inches in length. Maximum wear tolerance is .002 to .006" inches. This means anything measuring shorter than 4.865 inches should not be used or requires replacement. Also, the bronze tip rides the concentric the steel end pushes the pump arm.

So I had a look at my stock push rod from my 63 LCC, and it doesn't have the bronze tip. It is a solid steel piece. According to Bakers, in late 63 they switched to solid steel. So here are my questions. According to the above, the push rod length shouldn't be less than 4.865 inches... my solid steel push rod is 4 13/16 inches which translates to 4.8125. So it would seem that it is too short. But Bakers said that the replacement solid steel part they sell is 4 13/16 inches. So the stock size of the solid steel rod is smaller than the stock brone tipped rod. Did they compensate by having a bigger rotator piece?


Here's another thread about push rods: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=27725&p=193099

Enjoy!
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Re: Fuel Pump Pushrod

Postby linc64 » Fri May 17, 2013 5:32 pm

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Re: Fuel Pump Pushrod

Postby Dan Szwarc » Fri May 17, 2013 6:36 pm

That's a great thread, Jim.
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Re: Fuel Pump Pushrod

Postby briven95 » Fri May 17, 2013 9:34 pm

When I had the engine in the convertible rebuilt in 2003 I got the Baker's fuel pump pushrod conversion kit and have never had any problems with vapor lock. I did the same this winter when the sedan engine was rebuilt.
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Re: Fuel Pump Pushrod

Postby Ken Stevens » Fri May 17, 2013 11:20 pm

Well to wrap this thread up, I heard from Steve at Baker's. here's what he had to say:

"You cannot simply replace the early version with the later steel pushrod. There is a difference in length but this isn’t the only problem If you put the steel version in a 1961 without replacing the rotating sleeve of the eccentric you will likely damage the rotator and have to disassemble the front of the engine to replace the damaged components. From your symptoms that would be my guess as to what has already happened."

Damn...
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Re: Fuel Pump Pushrod

Postby Dan Szwarc » Sat May 18, 2013 7:48 am

It means that you have to replace the eccentric assembly with the newer one. You likely haven't damaged anything else.

It means pulling everything on the front of the engine. Barf!
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Re: Fuel Pump Pushrod

Postby Ken Stevens » Sat May 18, 2013 1:22 pm

But that's the kind of repair that falls under the category of "as long as you're in there...." So as long as I'm doing this job it seems natural to replace the diverters, timing chain, thermostat, belts, hoses, blah, blah, blah. This could get expensive. By the time I get the cash to get this done, it will be about time to put it away for the winter.
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