460 swap

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takearide
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460 swap

Post by takearide »

You guys are hilarious. Over the years I have been consistently amused by the vehemence with which some argue against anyone attempting this swap.

I have a 64 convertible driver and I will probably never have the time to swap the 69 460 and C-6 that I have set aside in the garage into it. I am beginning to think that proving it can be done is reason enough to get to work.

Of course there will have to be modifications to make this happen, but is it really necessary to resort to such alarmist tactics to dissuade people from modifying their cars better suit their tastes. If someone wants to make their car faster, and has the time and money, go for it. Other enthusiasts perform engine swaps by the hundreds and many of them are alot harder than this. The complete drivetrain of a SVT Mustang Cobra into a Focus comes to mind. Every "problem" that has been mentioned here has a commercially available solution that is just a few mouse clicks away.

5000 pound cars (Lincoln or otherwise) will never be especially quick. But there are many other options for more horsepower and torque than your hallowed MEL. As an example Ford Racing Performance Parts 514 crate engine is rated at 625 HP at 6250 RPM, 600 ft/lbs. of torque at 4800 RPM. The cam is too hot for a heavy streetcar but that is an easy modification.

It might be difficult and expensive to achieve a significant boost in performance in our heavy cars, but few things that result in real satisfaction are easy and cheap.

For those restorers who think all cars should remain 100 point correct, get out your checkbooks and start buying cars to preserve for your descendants. Otherwise people you have no control over will be doing all sorts of things that you do not approve of.
'64 Lincoln Continental Convertible for a little while yet
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Alex D MacArthur
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Post by Alex D MacArthur »

It sounds like your mechanic is selling you the Ford Racing 514 which lists for around $7995 ? as a factory crate engine. ( Do a search on Ford racing and you can download a pdf file of the catalog ).

I have often wondered about swapping a 462 in place of a 430 for just a little extra punch. This SHOULD be almost a direct swap. Has anyone done this on the forum ?

If so, did the transmission bolt up directly?
Are the exhaust manifolds a bolt up to the exhaust system?
Any other comments ?
Alex
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Post by Lugnut »

Actually, you would gain little to nothing in terms of horsepower or torque by swapping a 430 for a 462. 32 cubes spread over 8 cylinders is not exactly a big change. The 462 was spec'd at 340 hp, while the post 1959 430s were rated at 315 or 320 hp depending upon the given year. '58 - '59 430s were rated at 375 hp. Twenty to twenty-five horsepower more is not going to be anything one would notice in normal driving.
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Post by sgt art »

Monster Garage and American Hotrod do stuff like this all the time. I think that's where some of these ideas come from. I'm in the middle of a swap like this right now with my son's 93 Mitsi Eclipse. He wants to install a 2.0 L DOHC in place of the 1.8L SOHC engine. He found a wreck with the desired engine however, the trans is an auto and he has and wants 5 spd. Well, the 5 spd in his car won't mate up or hold up to the more powerful engine. So, he had to buy the proper transmission from a salvage yard (ching). The engine he harvested from the wreck was in very good condition for one with 166K on the clock, so off the machine shop (.020 pistons and and rings plus labor to bore out the cylinders - ching). The head went off to another shop who specializes in those type heads and had a fresh up (ching). He also had to harvest most of the electronics from donor car as the two engines use different ECU etc. Including the fuel pump. Did you know Mitsi puts a bolt in the fuel tank just like on an oil pan? Yeah, they do, I found out about that yesterday. Whole damn place smells like gasoline. Well, you get the point. He's going to have a lot more money in it then the car will ever be worth, but he's also getting an education that's priceless, I suppose. He's fixin' to get one at Parris Island in about 4 weeks he won't never forget either. That'll get his young behind out of my tool box.

I will only say that after doing stuff like this myself, that's it's usually not worth the effort. People don't want to hear that, but I think it's true. No one says you can't do modifications away from the original set up, you can do just about anything you want if you're prepared to spend the money to do it. A big old car like a Lincoln was never meant to be a drag racer, it was meant to cruise the highway in comfort and style.
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mechatech
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Post by mechatech »

Lugnut wrote:Actually, you would gain little to nothing in terms of horsepower or torque by swapping a 430 for a 462. 32 cubes spread over 8 cylinders is not exactly a big change. The 462 was spec'd at 340 hp, while the post 1959 430s were rated at 315 or 320 hp depending upon the given year. '58 - '59 430s were rated at 375 hp. Twenty to twenty-five horsepower more is not going to be anything one would notice in normal driving.
Would a displacement change affect the rpm at which peak hp is produced? Would torque increase? I'm asking because of the tweaks I'm planning for my '72 460. I'm hoping for a 50 hp increase from the original gross 330.
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Alex D MacArthur
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Post by Alex D MacArthur »

In this case ( stock 462 vs. stock 430 ) there would likely not be much difference in the rpm at peak horsepower. If the extra cubes are achieved by longer stroke, more torque would be expected at the same rpm, and peak rpm would be limited slightly if you wished to keep the engine together for a long time. These engines are relatively low rpm grunters not racing engines, and as others have pointed out, it is tough to be first away from the lights when the car is approaching 3 tons in mass.

About fifty years ago, I hot rodded a model B Ford by pulling the 4 cylinder engine and replacing it with a larger, stock flathead Mercury engine. That swap resulted in a significant change in performance.

Years after that I hot rodded an AMC engine by keeping the same displacement, but changing the valve train, intake, carburetion, exhaust, etc. and significantly altered the torque vs. rpm curve. Low rpm operation suffered, but once the car hit mid-range rpm's , it was a rocket. Max. rpm went from 5000 rpm to 7000 rpm. Internal stresses however, doubled, so one cannot expect longevity if insisting on buzzing the engine to peak rpms.

In the case of the 514 crate engine offered by Ford, torque increases to 600 lbs-ft at less than 5000 rpm. Most of us would definitely notice that kick in the pants, but there would be offsetting changes to your ride.
Alex
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Alex D MacArthur
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Post by Alex D MacArthur »

would be offsetting changes to your ride

let me clarify that - I do not mean the quality of the suspension characteristics, but 'ride' in the sense of the TV show 'Rides' - for example rough idle, increased engine noise from headers, increased fuel consumption, etc.
Alex
Lugnut

Post by Lugnut »

let me clarify that - I do not mean the quality of the suspension characteristics
Suspension and handling can also be altered as more power causes an overall torque induced weight shift to the rear suspension as higher speeds are reached. We often choose to ignore the changes in handling in our exhuberance of the feel of brute power.
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Post by clark »

Now my 2 cents. One day my 65 shall be complete with the 5.4l engine properly installed. But that's another story. The 430 is a decent engine. If you are starting to throw big bucks at a car you've really got to consider what you are going to gain in the end. Horsepower is only one measurement of a fine running engine. I drove a 61 for years that drove and ran wonderfully with a 430. I'd suggest to get the most bang for your buck you could 1. put on a 65 four barrel manifold and your favorite four barrel carb. Port and polish the manifold. 2. If the engine is being rebuilt anyways, rebalance the pistons, crank etc and cc the heads. Do this to fine tolerances 3. Install Electronic high energy ingnition system and wires to get the most out of your combustion chamber. 4. check and tune your pipe dream transmission. 5. Stock is good, but I reground my cam to Mercedes 300sl specks. (Cam shops suggestion. It wasn't quite as radical as an RV grind.)
Exhaust manifolds can also be polished, the big thing is to make sure they flow freely and have no leaks. 6. A high flow air filter.
For a lot less than you are planning to spend you should get silky smooth performance across the power band. I think of an old Road and Track mustang shoot out article where three mustangs, two with higher horsepower and one finely tuned and balanced ran through a road course together. Despite the lesser horsepower, the balanced car excelled because it's power was so usable. Lincoln picked the 430 for their flagship Cadillac challenger for a reason....Oh, and yes my 61 would burn rubber.
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