Engine Drama Continued (From Sluggish Starting Issue)

Engine, fuel system, cooling system, heating, carburetors, exhaust, transmission, wheels, and other items related to the moving the car.

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Re: Engine Drama Continued (From Sluggish Starting Issue)

Postby action » Thu Sep 02, 2021 3:49 pm

TonyC wrote:Meanwhile, anybody got an operational 462 they don't need, and can arrange freighting to Middle-Of-Nowhere, Kansas...?

---Tony


MELinda would be for sale if you have interest. Let me know and I can give you some detail.
She is no longer a complete engine. And I have never seen her in operation.

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Re: Engine Drama Continued (From Sluggish Starting Issue)

Postby TonyC » Fri Sep 03, 2021 1:48 am

Thanks, Action. If she still has the pistons and crank in place that could still be a plus for me. I could transfer everything else from my old engine, easy to do since everything is already sitting in cabinets.

Right now I'm looking at one more option; today after I posted my frustration, Egge confirmed they have new 030-over piston sets in stock, so next week I want to buy one of those and see if the machinist can make those fit. If so, and I'm stressing IF at this point, then I may cure my problem. If not, then that's two sets of pistons I have to return for refunds, which I can then reallocate for buying and freighting MELinda. I will keep in touch with you about the prospect. Again, thank you!

---Tony
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Re: Engine Drama Continued (From Sluggish Starting Issue)

Postby action » Fri Sep 03, 2021 2:35 pm

TonyC wrote:Thanks, Action. If she still has the pistons and crank in place that could still be a plus for me. I could transfer everything else from my old engine, easy to do since everything is already sitting in cabinets.

---Tony


It is a short block at this point.
No heads, no mounts, no flex plate, no valley pan, no push rods, no fuel pump, no alternator or AC compressor and no power steering res.
Nothing attached to the exterior of the block, except the oil pan

Has pistons, rods, crank & cam with bearings and rings still in place.
And it is rather dirty

Not sure if the lifters fell out or are still there
The timing cover is on it and is promised to another person.

If you have interest, I will buy a inside mic and measure the cylinders. Then post that.

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Phoenix - Yeah, it's hot, however it's a dry heat
2006 Lincoln Navigator Limited 5.4l 3V
1996 Lincoln Mark VIII 2DR Coupe Diamond Anniversary 4.6l DOHC, 4R70W, 3.07
1970 Continental Mark III Triple Black 460 4v, C6, 2.80 (Used for Woodward Dream Cruise or just generally stored in Michigan)
1966 Lincoln Continental 4DR Convertible 462 4v, C6, 3.00
1966 Mercury Park Lane 4DR Breezeway 410 4v, C6, 2.80
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Re: Engine Drama Continued (From Sluggish Starting Issue)

Postby tomo » Fri Sep 03, 2021 6:37 pm

Here is wishing you some GOOD luck, Tony. You have had enough bad luck with this engine.
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Re: Engine Drama Continued (From Sluggish Starting Issue)

Postby TonyC » Sat Sep 04, 2021 1:51 pm

Thank you, Tom. Still praying for an end to this ordeal, no matter what that end may be.

Action, it seems that MELinda may have all I need. Everything that's missing or may be missing, I have; so no issue with that. One question: Does the crank turn? If it does, that's one less issue to deal with. Right now I'm still pursuing a second set of pistons, so it may still be a couple more weeks before I know whether I need her...but I am seriously considering the option. I was thinking, with her weight chopped to about 500, maybe the freighting won't be so bad.

---Tony
"Don't believe everything you read on the Internet, just because there is a picture with a quote next to it." (Abraham Lincoln, 1866)
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Re: Engine Drama Continued (From Sluggish Starting Issue)

Postby action » Sat Sep 04, 2021 3:32 pm

Crank does turn
I have never seen the engine running

Not sure of weight. When I got her I was planning on 700 - 800 pounds. And that included a transmission
This site shows a bare head at 60 pounds
http://ford-mel-engine.com/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=15

I would thinking a complete engine would be 500 pounds

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Phoenix - Yeah, it's hot, however it's a dry heat
2006 Lincoln Navigator Limited 5.4l 3V
1996 Lincoln Mark VIII 2DR Coupe Diamond Anniversary 4.6l DOHC, 4R70W, 3.07
1970 Continental Mark III Triple Black 460 4v, C6, 2.80 (Used for Woodward Dream Cruise or just generally stored in Michigan)
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1966 Mercury Park Lane 4DR Breezeway 410 4v, C6, 2.80
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Re: Engine Drama Continued (From Sluggish Starting Issue)

Postby TonyC » Sat Sep 04, 2021 3:54 pm

I remember the actual weights of the two heads I bought last year from Jason Ballard were 63 pounds each, which included the valves. With exhaust manifolds attached they should be no more than 70 pounds; double that, subtract from a mean figure of 750, factor in another 50 for the intake, that drops the weight even more.

I don't have a source on 462 weight, but the sources on engine weights that I have seen all stated that a 430 weighs in at about 750 pounds fully assembled. I doubt the 462 would weigh any more, being how closely similar it is to the 430. With all the parts around the block taken off save for the crank (heads, manifolds, brackets, etc.), I'm guessing it should be about 500 pounds, if that.

Great news that the crank turns! If I go that route (Plan C), I shouldn't have trouble clearing out her fluid passages and putting her together. Worst-case scenario, if the piston rings need replacing, I still have a set of standard-size rings on hand.

---Tony
"Don't believe everything you read on the Internet, just because there is a picture with a quote next to it." (Abraham Lincoln, 1866)
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Re: Engine Drama Continued (From Sluggish Starting Issue)

Postby TonyC » Mon Oct 04, 2021 12:51 am

Well, all, a quick update: Re-assembly has begun as of this past weekend. The second set of pistons worked, so the machinist rodded them all and even reconditioned one rod (the #2 rod) that had abnormal wear to it, which I suspected but didn't say anything...although he accused me of telling him not to bother with the rods because I said they were all okay (I never said any such thing to him, I wanted to see if he'd catch anything suspicious about the rods himself!). His notes on the receipt sure struck me as a pissed-off father scolding a child...at least, that's how I felt when I read it. I'm counting on not needing his services ever again.

Anyway, I digress. Friday I went to the auto shop to mount the block on the work stand, and I installed the camshaft, crankshaft main bearings, crankshaft, and rear oil seal. I stayed home Saturday, mainly because of the possibility of a carrier visiting my door to collect the first set of pistons for return to the first seller I bought from (nobody came, so it was a vain stay...but, considering that UPS was directed the week prior to collect those pistons when I didn't have them on hand, I didn't want to take any chances). Today I went back and re-did the rear oil seal on a hunch which turned out to be right. The pins were hammered in on the wrong sides of the seal pieces (outboard, as opposed to the correct inboard), and they had misshapen to the point that they speared through the seal pieces. Luckily I had a spare set of side seals to re-do the job. After that, I installed the piston rings and then inserted the pistons; being that this makes the first-ever time I've gotten into an engine's core, I was very apprehensive and very over-cautious about what I was doing. I did have a few scares, but nothing disastrous happened, like broken rings or the like. I ran out of time, so only 5 rods are reattached to the crank; next Friday, IF I can get to the shop, I'll finish that part of the job.

MECHANIC'S NOTE: Regarding the ring installation, I have an important pointer, a caveat for anyone out there who wishes to venture into rebuilding a MEL engine. In the shop manual, in the section about ring compression and piston installation, there is a picture of the ring compressor to be used. It is what I call a "torque-band" compressor, a spring-metal doohickey with a tensioning wheel tightened by a 1/4" drive and extension and loosened by a flip-lever that locks the torque pressure down as well...as opposed to other ring-compressor designs that use plier-like attachments to squeeze the rings down (visual aids posted below). I can tell you that this "torque-band" compressor is not a mere suggestion; it is a requirement. It's the only design of compressor that will allow the pistons and their rings to be properly driven into the bores with minimal issues; because of its design, it can go partially into the cylinder thanks to the slightly-enlarged bore of the combustion chamber area. Due to the 10º tilt of the cylinders in relation to the deck, it must, to ensure that all the rings remain fully compressed until they are fully seated inside the cylinder. It can be very easy to damage rings if this step is not carefully followed to the letter...and considering that rings are an endangered species nowadays, that is something that one must not take lightly.

Anyway, for the first time in seven-plus months, I have a really deep-down feeling that I'm finally making progress at last on Plan A. I just hope I haven't jumped the gun with this report and jinxed myself. Just in case I have, like the crack in the block suddenly opening up now that the new pistons are in place (hasn't happened to my knowledge, but I thought of that possibility occurring next time I make it to the auto shop), I'm still keeping Plan C as an option: Action's MELinda.

---Tony
Attachments
20211015_122758.jpg
"Torque-Band" ring compressor (a term I came up with for lack of knowing its proper name)
20211015_122405.jpg
Compressor with piston ideally placed for insertion into block
20211015_160004.jpg
Compressor at proper angle of attack (it needs to go in the cylinder that way for the piston to seat properly and to keep the rings from popping loose, due to the angle of the cylinders)
Last edited by TonyC on Mon Oct 18, 2021 11:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Don't believe everything you read on the Internet, just because there is a picture with a quote next to it." (Abraham Lincoln, 1866)
"Question Authority!"

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Re: Engine Drama Continued (From Sluggish Starting Issue)

Postby rick » Tue Oct 12, 2021 9:14 pm

Keep on plugging away,Tony! Keep up the good work. You're gettin' there step by step.

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Re: Engine Drama Continued (From Sluggish Starting Issue)

Postby TonyC » Sat Oct 16, 2021 8:56 am

Thank you, Rick :smt006 . Well, the biggest things involved with this engine are done: All the rods installed and torqued, heads installed and torqued...but I think I pushed myself too hard yesterday, felt almost like I was going to have a second heart failure last night. I'm going slower today; I want to live long enough to hear this engine run again.

---Tony
"Don't believe everything you read on the Internet, just because there is a picture with a quote next to it." (Abraham Lincoln, 1866)
"Question Authority!"

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Re: Engine Drama Continued (From Sluggish Starting Issue)

Postby Dan Szwarc » Sat Oct 16, 2021 8:06 pm

A second heart failure?

You have two hearts?
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Re: Engine Drama Continued (From Sluggish Starting Issue)

Postby TonyC » Sun Oct 17, 2021 9:54 pm

:lol: No, I'm an Earth native, only one heart...and so far, only one heart failure. After this weekend, though, I've felt all the symptoms of my first one except for my appetite tanking. That's a good thing...but I do think I pushed myself too much.

But...whether it's worth it, that remains to be seen. I have put the entire core and about half of the upper half of the engine together...well, with a bit of help from the auto-center staff. The visual aids below show what the latest is, as of today.

---Tony
Attachments
20211016_154405.jpg
On stand, waiting to be craned
20211017_103045.jpg
On crane, in transit
20211017_111418.jpg
In you go...
20211017_164018.jpg
Back in bay, secured and waiting for remaining assembly
Last edited by TonyC on Mon Oct 18, 2021 11:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Don't believe everything you read on the Internet, just because there is a picture with a quote next to it." (Abraham Lincoln, 1866)
"Question Authority!"

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Re: Engine Drama Continued (From Sluggish Starting Issue)

Postby action » Sun Oct 17, 2021 10:00 pm

Fram oil filter! Really?

Action
Phoenix - Yeah, it's hot, however it's a dry heat
2006 Lincoln Navigator Limited 5.4l 3V
1996 Lincoln Mark VIII 2DR Coupe Diamond Anniversary 4.6l DOHC, 4R70W, 3.07
1970 Continental Mark III Triple Black 460 4v, C6, 2.80 (Used for Woodward Dream Cruise or just generally stored in Michigan)
1966 Lincoln Continental 4DR Convertible 462 4v, C6, 3.00
1966 Mercury Park Lane 4DR Breezeway 410 4v, C6, 2.80
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Re: Engine Drama Continued (From Sluggish Starting Issue)

Postby TonyC » Mon Oct 18, 2021 1:18 am

:lol: Aw, what's so wrong about that? I mean, it's not like I'll be running Pennzoil through that Fram filter.

Besides, I have no choice now unless I want to spend twice as much for a filter I'll change out at the same interval anyway. Since Wal-Mart stopped making its own filters I had to resort to the next lowest-priced brand.

---Tony
"Don't believe everything you read on the Internet, just because there is a picture with a quote next to it." (Abraham Lincoln, 1866)
"Question Authority!"

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Re: Engine Drama Continued (From Sluggish Starting Issue)

Postby LithiumCobalt » Mon Oct 18, 2021 7:58 am

I see my most favoritest part of this job is still forthcoming. I absolutely detest that small section of hose between the water pump and the intake manifold.
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